Unlicenced driver - can they drive on non public roads?

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  • Rover_Driver
    Rover_Driver Posts: 1,507
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    edited 10 August 2013 at 12:50PM
    Paradigm wrote: »
    This makes things interesting.....
    I would guess that the safari park is barriered & that there is only access after payment, would it therefore be excluded from the RTA?

    If the public are prohibited and there is a barrier that prevented public access, the RTA may not apply, but if there is no prohibition and the barrier did not prevent public access, eg. only control it, the RTA would apply.
  • Aretnap
    Aretnap Posts: 5,172
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    Paradigm wrote: »
    I would guess that the safari park is barriered & that there is only access after payment, would it therefore be excluded from the RTA?
    I can't find the particular case, but I'm fairly sure that there's case law to the effect that paying a fee to use a road doesn't establish that it's not a public place. A safari park is normally open to the general public provided they pay the entry fee. If it was only open to a special group of people, such as members of a bona fide club, it would probably be a private place.
  • Buzby
    Buzby Posts: 8,275 Forumite
    It is private - so no licence required. Public 'access' is a red herring as you will know with Private Parking Companies doing all they can to legitimise their pursuit of drivers to pay their parking invoices.

    Any landowner can either let, or explicitly give permission for anyone to drive on their property - there is nothing that requires them to ensure a valid licence is issued to the driver. HOWEVER, insurance remains an issue - would the same landowner waive rights to pursue the unlicensed driver if they caused damage to their property? I doubt it!

    Or if the same driver ran into the car in front after being pursued by monkeys? No police involvement is relevant, but the aggrieved party may have pursue the uninsured driver for their damages and costs.
  • DUTR wrote: »
    If you mean the M6 Toll road, it is a public road that is privately maintained.
    Exactly. I would not like to stand before a judge and jury and try to explain that I thought I could get away with going 120mph down the M6 Toll because it wasn't considered a 'public highway' because it has barriers.

    Usually in these situations if the law is not clear, if you are in any doubt, just don't do it. Simple.
  • DUTR
    DUTR Posts: 12,958
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    True_Blue wrote: »
    Exactly. I would not like to stand before a judge and jury and try to explain that I thought I could get away with going 120mph down the M6 Toll because it wasn't considered a 'public highway' because it has barriers.

    Usually in these situations if the law is not clear, if you are in any doubt, just don't do it. Simple.

    When it 1st opened, people were getting tickets for speeding, and the excuse that it was a toll road, wasn't sufficient.
  • alastairq
    alastairq Posts: 5,030 Forumite
    Decades ago now, when I was involved at an organisational level with local motorsport, we encountered issues with the change of definition of a public road.
    We used to use ..for example, a large hotel car park [for autotests].

    All of a sudden there were issues of compliance of vehicles to the RTA...as well as licences [drivers could be 16 years old]...

    Simply because, a hotel car park was deemed a 'road to which the public have access.'

    I would suggest a Safari park has barriers, not to prevent pubic access, but to prevent the inmates escaping?

    [Or is that, the inmates of the outside world, escaping into the Safari park?]

    The fact that the public are actually encouraged to gain access to the Safari park might well provide the key?

    What do the safari park T&Cs state?

    I know if I were driving through, I would not like to think the car behind was being driven by a 14 year old.
    No, I don't think all other drivers are idiots......but some are determined to change my mind.......
  • Rover_Driver
    Rover_Driver Posts: 1,507
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    edited 10 August 2013 at 4:45PM
    Buzby wrote: »
    It is private - so no licence required. Public 'access' is a red herring as you will know with Private Parking Companies doing all they can to legitimise their pursuit of drivers to pay their parking invoices.

    Far from being a red herring, public access is an important element of the definition. Even if it is a private road, if it is a road to which the public have access, the R.T.A. applies.

    Private parking companies and their claims are a completely different matter.
  • Nilrem
    Nilrem Posts: 2,565
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    I suspect that for the purpose of the law a Safari park would be deemed a public place - the Public have access (behind an entry barrier - but then so are many car parks), and are present, at least during opening hours.

    For example a farmers field might be classed as private 95% of the time, but if there are members of the public at an event in the field, then it would be classed as public as they are present...(IIRC this is backed up by case law).

    It's one of those laws where the the places that are affected can and do vary depending on the circumstances, but my gut would be that certainly during open hours it would be public for the purposes of the RTA.

    As has already mentioned insurance is another matter altogether - I suspect the Safari park would not be amused if an unlicensed (and almost certainly uninsured) person was involved in an accident involving their property, let alone one of the animals (and given the value and cost involved in some zoo animals, that could prove very expensive).
  • I think there are terms and conditions when you enter a safari park anyway, and you probably bind yourself to some sort of legal contract that covers them against insurance and it probably also says if you take a car in you have to be qualified and insured. Id be very surprised if any park operated without conditions to cover their asses and also protect themselves
  • paddedjohn
    paddedjohn Posts: 7,512
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    Buzby wrote: »
    It is private - so no licence required. Public 'access' is a red herring as you will know with Private Parking Companies doing all they can to legitimise their pursuit of drivers to pay their parking invoices.

    Any landowner can either let, or explicitly give permission for anyone to drive on their property - there is nothing that requires them to ensure a valid licence is issued to the driver. HOWEVER, insurance remains an issue - would the same landowner waive rights to pursue the unlicensed driver if they caused damage to their property? I doubt it!

    Or if the same driver ran into the car in front after being pursued by monkeys? No police involvement is relevant, but the aggrieved party may have pursue the uninsured driver for their damages and costs.



    If the car has a policy then the insurance will have to pay out any 3rd party claims regardless of who was driving or where.
    Be Alert..........Britain needs lerts.
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