I have CCJ against company but the debt hasn't been paid

fighting_the_good_fight · 27 October 2013 at 11:17PM

I'm surprised at how difficult this process through the small claims court is, and I really need advice. I'll try to keep the facts of my case simple,:

Through the Small Claims Court, I have a CCJ against a "Limited" company, for £1000 + costs
I have tried to 'enforce the judgment', using County Court bailiffs, but they say something like "there are no saleable goods at this private residence"
I think I understand that other methods of enforcing the judgment, including a Charge against his Property and Freezing his Assets, are useless - because it's a Limited company
I don't know for sure if the company / its owner is still trading, under any name. I have been on the 'companieshouse' website as I write this and the company has a blank status (ie not 'dissolved' or other), suggesting it still trades.

My questions are:

Is it worth pursuing the enforcement route of Ordering him to Attend court?
Is there a bankruptcy route i can pursue, and how, and is it worth it?
Is it worth elevating from County Court to High Court?

And, what do I have to do to work out which of these options best suits my circumstances, and / or is the most likely to succeed?

Finally, am I right that there is no limit to the legal costs I can incur in chasing this debt that will be added to his debt? ie, if I have to pursue all available measures /costs before getting my money, will he ultimately be legally responsible for them all?

Buzby · 27 October 2013 at 11:41PM

It really doesn't matter what assets the director has - they're his, and your action was against his company - a separate legal entity. So, unless his home was designated as company property, bailiffs would not levy distraint on it.

You can ask the court to order a representative of the company to attend, but this could be any director or nominated person (a secretary or accountant) not a named individual.

You can certainly apply to wind up the company, but not bankrupt a director as you are an unsecured creditor - in any case, there may be no liquidity to benefit you.

You are chasing a shadow - you cannot make HIM liable for your ongoing actions, only the company, and that may be worth nothing.

If you know where the company bank account is, attempt to garnishee it. If this doesn't work - stop pursuing, as there is nothing you can do to get blood out of a stone.

grumbler · 28 October 2013 at 12:02AM

fighting_the_good_fight wrote: »

Finally, am I right that there is no limit to the legal costs I can incur in chasing this debt that will be added to his debt? ie, if I have to pursue all available measures /costs before getting my money, will he ultimately be legally responsible for them all?

I've was once told that it's not the case for court cases between private parties. Don't know if it's the same for business.

Also, I've heard that it's pretty easy to get their bank account(s) frozen that can be a nuisance if they still keep trading.

inmypocketnottheirs · 28 October 2013 at 9:25AM

A CCJ against a limited company will make it very hard to get facilities from his bank or credit from suppliers.

What's the history of the company?

HappyMJ · 28 October 2013 at 9:46AM

fighting_the_good_fight wrote: »

I'm surprised at how difficult this process through the small claims court is, and I really need advice. I'll try to keep the facts of my case simple,:

Through the Small Claims Court, I have a CCJ against a "Limited" company, for £1000 + costs

I have tried to 'enforce the judgment', using County Court bailiffs, but they say something like "there are no saleable goods at this private residence"

I think I understand that other methods of enforcing the judgment, including a Charge against his Property and Freezing his Assets, are useless - because it's a Limited company

I don't know for sure if the company / its owner is still trading, under any name. I have been on the 'companieshouse' website as I write this and the company has a blank status (ie not 'dissolved' or other), suggesting it still trades.

My questions are:

Is it worth pursuing the enforcement route of Ordering him to Attend court?
Is there a bankruptcy route i can pursue, and how, and is it worth it?
Is it worth elevating from County Court to High Court?

And, what do I have to do to work out which of these options best suits my circumstances, and / or is the most likely to succeed?

Finally, am I right that there is no limit to the legal costs I can incur in chasing this debt that will be added to his debt? ie, if I have to pursue all available measures /costs before getting my money, will he ultimately be legally responsible for them all?

will he ultimately be legally responsible for them all?

No....

It's a limited company the liability of the company is limited to the money the shareholders invested in the first place. That's usually just £1. So there isn't much else you can do.

bris · 28 October 2013 at 11:00AM

Be careful in how much more money you throw at this.

The bailiffs will know the likelihood of recovery and it sounds to me like they have already told you there is nothing to recover.

Ltd companies are a haven for fly by nights who set up these businesses and give false promises like 10 year warranties etc. But when they have taken enough and the problems start they simply walk away and start a new company, this is not new, it's been going on for years and there is nothing the Bailiffs can do to recover what is not there.

fighting_the_good_fight · 31 October 2013 at 11:48AM

Thanks for all that. I think I'm dealing with a still-operating one-man company, who hopes I'll just go away; I won't.

Briefly, how do I apply to wind up the company and how does that work? Might it just scare him into paying me? - like the attending court option.

Buzby wrote: »

It really doesn't matter what assets the director has - they're his, and your action was against his company - a separate legal entity. So, unless his home was designated as company property, bailiffs would not levy distraint on it.

You can ask the court to order a representative of the company to attend, but this could be any director or nominated person (a secretary or accountant) not a named individual.

You can certainly apply to wind up the company, but not bankrupt a director as you are an unsecured creditor - in any case, there may be no liquidity to benefit you.

You are chasing a shadow - you cannot make HIM liable for your ongoing actions, only the company, and that may be worth nothing.

If you know where the company bank account is, attempt to garnishee it. If this doesn't work - stop pursuing, as there is nothing you can do to get blood out of a stone.

fighting_the_good_fight · 31 October 2013 at 11:50AM

Thanks for your time and advice.

I think I can only freeze his business bank account if I have those details, and I don't unfortunately.

grumbler wrote: »

I've was once told that it's not the case for court cases between private parties. Don't know if it's the same for business.

Also, I've heard that it's pretty easy to get their bank account(s) frozen that can be a nuisance if they still keep trading.

fighting_the_good_fight · 31 October 2013 at 11:53AM

As far as I know it's one guy on his own for the past 2 or 3 years, with a van (don't know if he owns it; the county bailiffs clearly don't know about it or it's leased) and minimum tools - he hires machinery when he needs it and passes on the cost to the customer. I believe he's still trading in the same company name. I think he's just a bit out of his depth, with his head in the sand, hoping I'll go away. If I can get through to him to face facts, I believe I can make him pay. I just need to know the route with the highest chances of success.

inmypocketnottheirs wrote: »

A CCJ against a limited company will make it very hard to get facilities from his bank or credit from suppliers.

What's the history of the company?

fighting_the_good_fight · 31 October 2013 at 11:57AM

I just don't think this is the case with this guy - rather I think he's a bit out of his depth with his head in the sand and hopes I'll go away. I believe he's still trading under the same company name.

I get the impression the county bailiffs haven't really looked properly or tried hard enough - they are very slow to act and poor at responding to my enquiries. That's why I wondered about elevating it to High Court, as the bailiffs are on commission and therefore much more incentivised to get the money.

bris wrote: »

Be careful in how much more money you throw at this.

The bailiffs will know the likelihood of recovery and it sounds to me like they have already told you there is nothing to recover.

Ltd companies are a haven for fly by nights who set up these businesses and give false promises like 10 year warranties etc. But when they have taken enough and the problems start they simply walk away and start a new company, this is not new, it's been going on for years and there is nothing the Bailiffs can do to recover what is not there.

ILW · 31 October 2013 at 12:06PM

A personal visit quite often get results.
What is the director saying to you?

I have CCJ against company but the debt hasn't been paid

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