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merlinthehappypig
Posts: 1,106 Forumite
We are considering an offer on a new build, but not one from a major housebuilder. This is an individual new build from a local builder. It doesn't have a NHBC certificate, but does have an architects certificate which the estate agents are saying is 'better'.
Taking everything any estate agent says with a pinch of salt, does anyone know the difference between the two and, more importantly, does an architects certificate give us any form of guarantee like the NHBC one does?
The builder is a small local one who has developed a 2 acre plot with this house. The quality looks better than most new builds (better than my Barratt one from 24 years ago anyway!), but what do I know? Obviously he won't have the resources of someone like Barratt if any problems develop.
I've never bought a brand new house, but I am assuming that I wouldn't normally need to bother with a full survey if there was a NHBC certificate.
Thanks
Taking everything any estate agent says with a pinch of salt, does anyone know the difference between the two and, more importantly, does an architects certificate give us any form of guarantee like the NHBC one does?
The builder is a small local one who has developed a 2 acre plot with this house. The quality looks better than most new builds (better than my Barratt one from 24 years ago anyway!), but what do I know? Obviously he won't have the resources of someone like Barratt if any problems develop.
I've never bought a brand new house, but I am assuming that I wouldn't normally need to bother with a full survey if there was a NHBC certificate.
Thanks
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Comments
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Taking everything any estate agent says with a pinch of salt, does anyone know the difference between the two and, more importantly, does an architects certificate give us any form of guarantee like the NHBC one does?
It should be at least as good as an NHBC one, yes - but I understand that the NHBC includes a warranty, which an Architect's certificate doesn't. In particular, if the developer goes out of business, then the NHBC warranty takes on some (all?) of their contractual obligations, but there is no-one to undertake this if the Architect goes bust.
That said, the guarantee is usually from the Architect, personally, or from a specific firm - so you get that firm's personal attention to any issues, rather than having to deal with the rather "impersonal" NHBC - which is a "front" organisation for the individual developer.
However, you should do more research. This is really one for professional advice, unless you are confident with comparing the contractual terms of the Architect's Certificate with those included in the NHBC guarantee/warranty.Warning ..... I'm a peri-menopausal axe-wielding maniac
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Debt_Free_Chick wrote: »It should be at least as good as an NHBC one, yes - but I understand that the NHBC includes a warranty, which an Architect's certificate doesn't. In particular, if the developer goes out of business, then the NHBC warranty takes on some (all?) of their contractual obligations, but there is no-one to undertake this if the Architect goes bust.
That said, the guarantee is usually from the Architect, personally, or from a specific firm - so you get that firm's personal attention to any issues, rather than having to deal with the rather "impersonal" NHBC - which is a "front" organisation for the individual developer.
However, you should do more research. This is really one for professional advice, unless you are confident with comparing the contractual terms of the Architect's Certificate with those included in the NHBC guarantee/warranty.
Thanks for that.
My feeling was that the quality and service from the architect would probably exceed that of a larger housebuilder. I will take further advice, of course, if we decide to go ahead. It was the warranty I was concerned about and didn't think it would be as comprehensive as the NHBC one, despite what the EA said.0 -
Be careful with warranties as they are worded in careful legal language.
Terms such as "best endeavours" are frequent, meaning that "whilst we'll do our best to resolve the issue, we cannot promise that we'll do so and our warranty gives us no obligation to do so"!!
A warranty has a very specific legal meaning and is entirely dependent on its wording
Good Luck - post back if you have further issues :jWarning ..... I'm a peri-menopausal axe-wielding maniac0 -
I have never understood that an architect's certificate gives the same kind of cover that an NHBC certificate would. The architect warrants that the house has been properly constructed in accordance with the regulations and the plans and specifications etc. If it turns out that something is wrong then you may be able to sue the architect for making a negligent misstatement, but you would have to prove his negligence in that respect.
As I understand it an NHBC or Zurich Municipal certificate is wider because, given that the item in question is covered, you only have show the existence of the defect, not negligence on the part of the professional concerned.
The reason for the requirement for either Architect's Certificate or NHBC/Zurich is to give the confidence factor. If something goes wrong it can still be something of a hassle to get it all sorted. Obviously builders lose their registration with NHBC if there are continuing foul ups that are not put right so it is probably true that major national builders will remedy things to avoid adverse publicity whereas Fred the local builder won't care so much about his reputation.RICHARD WEBSTER
As a retired conveyancing solicitor I believe the information given in the post to be useful assuming any properties concerned are in England/Wales but I accept no liability for it.0 -
Thanks Richard. That's broadly what I thought - both show that things have been done in accordance with the regulations, but the architects certificate, in itself, doesn't offer any from of warranty.0
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http://www.newbuildinspections.com/architects_certificate.html
This is not a warranty and should not be mistaken for one. It is simply a statement from the architect that the property has been built in accordance with standard and accepted building principles. You should ask your solicitor to check the architect's professional indemnity insurance to ensure you can claim if a structural defect does arise.
There is no protection in case the builder goes out of buisness during the build period and snagging defects are not covered during the first two years of ownership.In case you hadn't already worked it out - the entire global financial system is predicated on the assumption that you're an idiot:cool:0 -
Housing estate near us (200 houses) all have architects cert. This is because its a contaminated brown field site and NHBC wont cover the houses on it.
Architects survey supposidly more thorough than NHBC, checking at more than just a couple of stages of building, but im not an expert on this.
Also some mortgage companies wont give you a mortage on one of these properties. 3 of the MAJOR banks in our town wont lend on them.
Beware, there is a reason he hasnt paid for NHBC.
Hope that helps,
Sammy
x:jProud mummy to a beautiful baby girl born 22/12/11 :j0 -
An architect's certificate is only a warranty in the sense that the issuing professional undertakes (by means of a signed CML certificate) that the subject property is built in accordance with the approved plans, complies with building regulations and is to a good standard. This undertaking is primarily for the use of banks and building societies as a security for a loan. The lender is provided with an assurance of the standard of construction, which is backed by the issuing architect's professional indemnity insurance. THIS IS NOT A LATENT DEFECTS POLICY. The NHBC provide an insurance backed guarantee and should intervene to provide a remedy to a problem, although some are excluded in their 'small print'. In all cases the builder is liable for the first two years following practical completion.
The larger guarantee providers, such as the NHBC, are not always the best choice for the smaller house builder, developer or self-builder since:
1. They will not step in if you have already commenced on site.
2. They act on behalf of their scheme member i.e. the contractor
3. They will require a bond payment from unregistered builders
4. All fees have to be paid up front whether the guarantee is issued or not
5. Often their inspectors are not chartered professionals
The whole point of any inspected scheme is to primarily ensure that the dwelling is built to such a standard that problems are eliminated. In this respect a chartered architect or surveyor will provide a more diligent service than an employee of a large company because they are personally liable in cases of negligence.
Remember that a chartered professional has undertaken at least seven years of study, examination and supervision by senior architects before given licence to practice. Their repuation and their future in the industry depends totally upon the quality of their service ('duty of care').
It is much more important to have a property free from defects in the first place.
T.W.Bartlett MRICS MCIOB
architectscertificate.co.uk0 -
Firstly some lenders won't consider anything other than NHBC or Zurich.
Zurich pulled out of new build insurance last year.
If you need a mortgage check with your lender to see if they will accept and architects certificate - remember if you sell on in less than 10 years your buyers will have the same issues.0 -
Milliewilly wrote: »Firstly some lenders won't consider anything other than NHBC or Zurich.
Zurich pulled out of new build insurance last year.
If you need a mortgage check with your lender to see if they will accept and architects certificate - remember if you sell on in less than 10 years your buyers will have the same issues.
most cml lenders accept architects cetificate
see:
http://www.cml.org.uk/cml/handbook/englandMy posts are just my opinions and are not offered as legal advice - though I consider them darn fine opinions none the less.:cool2:
My bad spelling...well I rush type these opinions on my own time, so sorry, but they are free.:o0
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