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  • FIRST POST
    • Pipsqueakaboo
    • By Pipsqueakaboo 11th Nov 17, 11:35 PM
    • 1Posts
    • 0Thanks
    Pipsqueakaboo
    Unfair dismissal?
    • #1
    • 11th Nov 17, 11:35 PM
    Unfair dismissal? 11th Nov 17 at 11:35 PM
    Hi all. Iím new and not sure if this is the right thing to put on here.

    Iím looking for some advice

    I was let go from my company on Wednesday . Iíd been there 2 years doing admin support and some recruitment (a hybrid role) I worked with my team in Brighton. There were about 6 of us and I supported my manager mainly but looked after the whole team in terms of support, admin and resourcing.

    My manager left the company after having a fall out with the directors. He advised em to look for a new job as the company are being a***holes.

    My colleagues also starting looking for a new role.

    Me being loyal decided nope Iím fine here I like what Iím doing and I donít want to leave unless I have too.

    Anyway, I had a week off on a staycation. I had a call from the director to say that he was going to close the Brighton Office and would I be happy to commute to London 3 times a week and theyíd provide me with a work mobile and pay for my travel, I said yes Iím fine with that.

    He told me it wouldnít be for a couple of months sknnot to worry. I got a call the day after to say that if actually be going to the office in London starting on that Monday I go back - so I had to drop a whole day of my holiday to go to the office to collect all my stuff.

    Once up in London everything was fine and dandy for a few weeks, new manager, new team, new Office and a commute so I knew itíll take a while to settle in.

    Things slowly started changing, I got told my recruiter license was being taken away and given to another team memeber because I diddnt need it as much - even though I did, they then increased my targets, my manager was hardly there, the atmosphere was different and the managers changed and became less friendly to me.

    My old manager (the one who left, weíre good friends) he told me that they were trying to manage me out.

    They then took me to a meeting one day and gave me a promotion and a pay rise

    But without asking me if it was something Iíd want to do I was thrown into it. Again without any consideration to ask me first.

    I was then made a delivery consultant and had no admin or support duties where Iím strongest.

    So my target was increased but my tools were taken away so I found it very difficult. Because of this they put me on a performance review.

    My new manager told me this over the phone, diddnt give it to me in writing and said to me that she is going to review me for a week and we will discuss on the following Thursday.

    I managed to get 6 CVs to her by Wednesday, still time to get 4 more by Thursday considering I had no tools to do this, it was very hard to do.

    On the Wednesday morning she took me into a meeting room and told me that they are aware that I had been Ďlooking for a new jobí I told her that I wasnít. She replied that I put it on Facebook.

    Now I have none of these people on Facebook but I had my profile open to public which was stupid of me.

    Now looking back to this status. I diddnt actually say I was looking for a job. I asked if you needed a degree to get into an interior, architectural or lighting design role.

    This is the reason they sacked me, I was fighting back on this saying that I could have been asking on behalf of a friend etc but she wouldnít have it, she then told me that Iím behind and it wasnít working out with this stupid fake smile on her face.

    When she told me I had to leave she said I could take my stuff but I wasnít aloud to touch the computer.

    I had my LinkedIn left logged on but I wasnít thinking about that at the time. I left my work phone, work password and keyfob behind.

    The next day she calls me and says that she found an email to my old boss with CVs that I sent him for finance (whoops, big mistake, but I did that during s lunch break and he moved into finance and we are technology, I did double delete but they had a catcher for these emails) she must have been going back along way.

    But still she fired me before she found that. She then went on to read all my private messages on LinkedIn which I thought was very very rude of her and if I were there would probably have been arrested.

    I just canít believe how it ended. I was nothing but nice to those people and supported th and hadto drop everything of mine to support them on their stuff only to have it thrown back in my face.

    Am I over exaggerating to be this angry about it?

    Especially the manager who read my messages.

    I feel like Iíve had 2 breaches of privacy. 1 on Facebook (which was my fault as was public) but the 2nd on LinkedIn. She should have just logged me out.

    How can I resolve this? Do I have a leg to stand on to go legal?

    I mean they can fire me for asking a question about an other career. And even if I was looking for a new job thatís not illegal?

    Sorry for the really long post!
Page 2
    • Tigsteroonie
    • By Tigsteroonie 14th Nov 17, 7:31 AM
    • 22,544 Posts
    • 56,171 Thanks
    Tigsteroonie
    Just to add a quick comment - it's been suggested upthread that the OP's Linked-In account usage was personal. I think it was both business and personal, the OP worked in recruitment and Linked-In is an appropriate tool to use to advertise vacancies and headhunt potential candidates. However, in using it as a work took, It would have been wiser to separate work from personal by having two logins (business and personal email addresses), or at least not indulging in personal messaging.
    Going to become Mrs Marleyboy for real

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    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 14th Nov 17, 9:40 AM
    • 905 Posts
    • 736 Thanks
    Comms69
    Well I could tell you that I have a degree in computer science and 8 years industry experience, but you would say that counts for nothing I'm sure. Your analogy is based on a complete lack of understanding of what a session is, and case law on the computer misuse act demonstrates that the analogy I have presented is what judges are going to rule by.

    I think this discussion has highlighted how poor the general publics knowledge of how computers function is!
    Originally posted by Energize


    Can you provide any case law? since you mentioned it, and are using it to solidify your position.
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 14th Nov 17, 10:30 AM
    • 1,627 Posts
    • 3,354 Thanks
    IAmWales
    Well I could tell you that I have a degree in computer science and 8 years industry experience, but you would say that counts for nothing I'm sure. Your analogy is based on a complete lack of understanding of what a session is, and case law on the computer misuse act demonstrates that the analogy I have presented is what judges are going to rule by.

    I think this discussion has highlighted how poor the general publics knowledge of how computers function is!
    Originally posted by Energize
    Is this the degree you failed? Just asking.

    I expect many of us answering do understand how computing works, as well as having completed law degrees.
    • IAmWales
    • By IAmWales 14th Nov 17, 10:32 AM
    • 1,627 Posts
    • 3,354 Thanks
    IAmWales
    Just to add a quick comment - it's been suggested upthread that the OP's Linked-In account usage was personal. I think it was both business and personal, the OP worked in recruitment and Linked-In is an appropriate tool to use to advertise vacancies and headhunt potential candidates. However, in using it as a work took, It would have been wiser to separate work from personal by having two logins (business and personal email addresses), or at least not indulging in personal messaging.
    Originally posted by Tigsteroonie
    Discussion of OP having a recruiter license would support your reasoning.
    • Energize
    • By Energize 14th Nov 17, 6:22 PM
    • 329 Posts
    • 110 Thanks
    Energize
    Can you provide any case law? since you mentioned it, and are using it to solidify your position.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    There's the case of Gareth Crosskey, sentenced to 1 year in prison for "hacking" into someones facebook account.

    Is this the degree you failed? Just asking.

    I expect many of us answering do understand how computing works, as well as having completed law degrees.
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    You're certainly not one of them, of that I'm sure.
    • Sarastro
    • By Sarastro 14th Nov 17, 7:07 PM
    • 223 Posts
    • 160 Thanks
    Sarastro
    I think there's more going against you than for you.

    I don't see how the Facebook is a breach of privacy; you put the information into the public domain.

    The Linkedin thing probably is a breach of privacy (as explained above) but I'm afraid employment law will probably trump that in this instance - especially as you have committed misconduct by sending the CV's to your old boss which demonstrates that you have abused the facilities the company provided for you to do your job.

    If you were there more than 2 years, i think an unfair or constructive dismissal case would be difficult - you accepted the change in location, and change in role. They don't sound the sort of company to meekly throw their hands up and admit liability, so do you really want the hassle for potentially small gain.

    You have every right to feel angry, you don't need advice on whether you should or should not. How you feel is how you feel. the question is what to do next. Do you feel angry enough to try to do something about it, or can you chalk it up to experience and move on?
    Last edited by Sarastro; 14-11-2017 at 7:08 PM. Reason: typo
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 15th Nov 17, 10:44 AM
    • 905 Posts
    • 736 Thanks
    Comms69
    There's the case of Gareth Crosskey, sentenced to 1 year in prison for "hacking" into someones facebook account.



    You're certainly not one of them, of that I'm sure.
    Originally posted by Energize


    That case involved preparation, it was premeditated. There were actions used, to discredit the victim. The victim was not an employee of the defendant. It literally has no similarity, except for the word 'facebook'.
    • Ozzuk
    • By Ozzuk 15th Nov 17, 3:20 PM
    • 1,145 Posts
    • 1,675 Thanks
    Ozzuk
    On the topic of them reading your personal correspondence on their asset, I don't think it is that clear cut, though possibly not from a computer misuse perspective but the more basic human right. From a Privacy website:

    "In April 2007 an employee at a Welsh College won a case against her employer, who had been monitoring her emails. She claimed they were intruding on her privacy; they claimed they were trying to find out whether she was misusing work hours. She won because the employer was shown to be infringing her right to a privacy.

    But don't presume the courts will rule in your favour: in 2006 a survey of UK businesses showed that a third had fired an employee in the last 12 months for email misuse. Stop to think before you forward that cheeky Christmas e-card: otherwise you could be one of the next ex-employees."

    In the OPs case, sounds like you did more wrong than right, I wouldn't be pursuing it.

    Full link for those interested:
    http://www.yourprivacy.co.uk/emailprivacyatwork.html

    It will be interesting to see how GDPR impact monitoring, I think we'll all (those that do it) need to be clearer on what is being monitored and likely seek approval, something not required currently under DPA (the approval part). I'm certainly no expert though.
    Last edited by Ozzuk; 15-11-2017 at 3:25 PM.
    • Energize
    • By Energize 15th Nov 17, 6:55 PM
    • 329 Posts
    • 110 Thanks
    Energize
    That case involved preparation, it was premeditated. There were actions used, to discredit the victim. The victim was not an employee of the defendant. It literally has no similarity, except for the word 'facebook'.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    On the contrary, that case proves that unauthorised access to online accounts does amount to computer misuse under the act.

    Premeditation is not a consideration in whether an offence has been committed under the act or not, and the relation between the offender and the victim is not pertinent, why do you think it would be?

    On the topic of them reading your personal correspondence on their asset, I don't think it is that clear cut, though possibly not from a computer misuse perspective but the more basic human right. From a Privacy website:

    Full link for those interested:
    http://www.yourprivacy.co.uk/emailprivacyatwork.html

    It will be interesting to see how GDPR impact monitoring, I think we'll all (those that do it) need to be clearer on what is being monitored and likely seek approval, something not required currently under DPA (the approval part). I'm certainly no expert though.
    Originally posted by Ozzuk
    I'd be interested to know what type of monitoring is being referred to in that particular case because all employers IT departments have the technical ability to look at emails sent and received through work email accounts, they don't need to "monitor" it as such, Office365 even retains deleted emails for 90 days by default which I have found useful when a little forensic work has been required. But if they were taking screenshots then yeah that's long been established as a really bad thing for employers to do.
    Last edited by Energize; 15-11-2017 at 7:22 PM.
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 15th Nov 17, 8:53 PM
    • 1,940 Posts
    • 1,453 Thanks
    hyubh
    Is this the degree you failed? Just asking.
    Originally posted by IAmWales
    Energize has been nothing but polite and restrained in their posts to this thread. You and fellow members of the Sangie chorus - perhaps not so.
    • dickydonkin
    • By dickydonkin 16th Nov 17, 9:29 AM
    • 2,878 Posts
    • 2,891 Thanks
    dickydonkin
    yet another constructive post from comms69
    Originally posted by laurenphipps85
    You have obviously missed the irony of your post.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 16th Nov 17, 9:51 AM
    • 905 Posts
    • 736 Thanks
    Comms69
    On the contrary, that case proves that unauthorised access to online accounts does amount to computer misuse under the act.

    Premeditation is not a consideration in whether an offence has been committed under the act or not, and the relation between the offender and the victim is not pertinent, why do you think it would be?



    I'd be interested to know what type of monitoring is being referred to in that particular case because all employers IT departments have the technical ability to look at emails sent and received through work email accounts, they don't need to "monitor" it as such, Office365 even retains deleted emails for 90 days by default which I have found useful when a little forensic work has been required. But if they were taking screenshots then yeah that's long been established as a really bad thing for employers to do.
    Originally posted by Energize
    Technically it proves remote access, using fraud, to make changes / create content to another's personal account is an offence.


    My point about there being no relationship is that no consent could have been obtained. Something the OP could have given in this case.
    • Energize
    • By Energize 16th Nov 17, 11:32 PM
    • 329 Posts
    • 110 Thanks
    Energize
    Technically it proves remote access, using fraud, to make changes / create content to another's personal account is an offence.


    My point about there being no relationship is that no consent could have been obtained. Something the OP could have given in this case.
    Originally posted by Comms69
    The overriding impression I get from the OP is that the linkedin account was personal, I would bet that the OP didn't sign a consent form saying that the employer could access her personal accounts after she was terminated from the company, that's not standard at any place of business.

    Employers behaving this way just invites disaster, if the employee makes a criminal complaint that could create a real issue for the employee with a police investigation, in some cases it could perhaps result in an employee trying to claim damages in a civil court too. I don't know what they were thinking here!
    • LABMAN
    • By LABMAN 17th Nov 17, 12:25 AM
    • 679 Posts
    • 1,126 Thanks
    LABMAN
    The overriding impression I get from the OP is that the linkedin account was personal, I would bet that the OP didn't sign a consent form saying that the employer could access her personal accounts after she was terminated from the company, that's not standard at any place of business.

    Employers behaving this way just invites disaster, if the employee makes a criminal complaint that could create a real issue for the employee with a police investigation, in some cases it could perhaps result in an employee trying to claim damages in a civil court too. I don't know what they were thinking here!
    Originally posted by Energize
    Why do people not read over what they type?
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 17th Nov 17, 9:54 AM
    • 905 Posts
    • 736 Thanks
    Comms69
    The overriding impression I get from the OP is that the linkedin account was personal, I would bet that the OP didn't sign a consent form saying that the employer could access her personal accounts after she was terminated from the company, that's not standard at any place of business.

    Employers behaving this way just invites disaster, if the employee makes a criminal complaint that could create a real issue for the employee with a police investigation, in some cases it could perhaps result in an employee trying to claim damages in a civil court too. I don't know what they were thinking here!
    Originally posted by Energize
    Civil damages of what? Where's the 'loss', quantify it.


    In any case, there wont be any investigation at all. The police, thankfully, have a tendency to concentrate on 'actual' crimes
    • Energize
    • By Energize 17th Nov 17, 1:37 PM
    • 329 Posts
    • 110 Thanks
    Energize
    Civil damages of what? Where's the 'loss', quantify it.


    In any case, there wont be any investigation at all. The police, thankfully, have a tendency to concentrate on 'actual' crimes
    Originally posted by Comms69
    I wasn't talking about this case, I was talking in a general sense.

    Considering that someone was sentenced to a whole year in prison for compromising someone's Facebook account I wouldn't be so sure that they wouldn't investigate this crime.
    • Comms69
    • By Comms69 17th Nov 17, 2:46 PM
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    • 736 Thanks
    Comms69
    I wasn't talking about this case, I was talking in a general sense.

    Considering that someone was sentenced to a whole year in prison for compromising someone's Facebook account I wouldn't be so sure that they wouldn't investigate this crime.
    Originally posted by Energize


    But they weren't sentenced to a year in prison for that. There we other factors which affected the sentence.


    If I accessed your account I would not get 12 months in prison.
    • Energize
    • By Energize 17th Nov 17, 5:52 PM
    • 329 Posts
    • 110 Thanks
    Energize
    Oh yeah I doubt you'd get 12 months for accessing someone's messages, but as an employer you'd potentially have all sorts of accusations levied against you by the ex employee which would be a pain in the !!!! to deal with if the police got involved . Best policy that I stick by is to retrieve important company data off the machine and then wipe it.

    Moral of the story I guess is, don't use company computers for personal stuff and don't access employees personal accounts.
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