Infrared Heating Panels....Again!

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  • jalexa
    jalexa Posts: 3,448 Forumite
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    fishybusiness wrote: »
    Looked at ... these

    w w w multiheat-energysystems.co.uk/shop-2/infrared-heating-panels1/wall-or-ceiling-infraredheating-panel-850w

    You are going to have to decide for yourself whether you believe the worked comparison.

    Personally I am not convinced by the convector heater purchase cost, nor the convector heater usage.
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,037 Forumite
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    fishybusiness wrote: »
    Anyone have real life experience of these panels?

    Yes!

    In an unheated garage when working at a bench.

    Also they were common years ago in bathrooms without any CH radiator. My grandparents had a huge infra-red bulb in a normal light fitting 'aimed' at the toilet.

    You surely cannot be taken in by that report, which was funded by Redwell and lo and behold praised Redwell! The report is typical of organisations who will produce a report full of graphs etc and reach the conclusion the customer wishes - 'He who pays the piper - calls the tune'!

    If you want unbiased information contact the Energy Saving Trust or an organisation like 'WHICH'.

    If you want directional heating - i.e. sit on a sofa, or at a desk, and sit in the 'beam' then infrared heaters have their use - albeit you can buy them for a fraction of the price. It is cheaper still to wrap yourself in a 100w electric blanket;)

    Heat output can be measured in a number of ways - BTu(British Thermal Unit) being perhaps the most common. The simple fact is that infrared heaters produce no more BTu for a given consumption of electricity(and hence cost) than any other heater.
  • fishybusiness
    fishybusiness Posts: 1,263 Forumite
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    You surely cannot be taken in by that report, which was funded by Redwell and lo and behold praised Redwell!

    Why not? Treating it with critical suspicion is one thing, writing it off because it makes rather difficult reading, or was a collaboration with a manufacturer is another. I think it is a bit more than a report, it is a comprehensive document written by an active researcher.

    I guess the biggest question is that of pay back when buying any heating system. I agree a cheap heater will heat a space, how different heaters actually work in practice may just be the subjective experience.

    If my 'boss' will let me, I am considering giving one a try....
  • daveyjp
    daveyjp Posts: 12,522 Forumite
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    £300 for a 850w heater is crazy. 850w is quite low output, so be prepared to be disappointed, unless it is on 24/7 and your rooms are very well insulated. A 2-3 kw ceramic fan heater with thermostat is a few quid and is also directional, I'd try one of these first.
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,037 Forumite
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    fishybusiness wrote: »
    I agree a cheap heater will heat a space, how different heaters actually work in practice may just be the subjective experience.

    If my 'boss' will let me, I am considering giving one a try....

    I thought I had made it clear I was talking about a cheap infrared heater.
    If you want directional heating - i.e. sit on a sofa, or at a desk, and sit in the 'beam' then infrared heaters have their use - albeit you can buy them for a fraction of the price.

    I suspect you will get one, and have little doubt you will find it wonderful;)
  • fishybusiness
    fishybusiness Posts: 1,263 Forumite
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    According to the 'knowledge' out on the net, infrared is sized up at 25w per m3 of space, whereas space heating is sized up at 45w per m3 of space.

    There is the claimed increase in efficiency....must read some more...
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,037 Forumite
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    fishybusiness wrote: »
    According to the 'knowledge' out on the net, infrared is sized up at 25w per m3 of space, whereas space heating is sized up at 45w per m3 of space.

    There is the claimed increase in efficiency....must read some more...

    I think it would be a very good idea for you to read some more; in particular the definition of 'efficiency'.
  • Richie-from-the-Boro
    Richie-from-the-Boro Posts: 6,945 Forumite
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    fishybusiness wrote: »
    According to the 'knowledge' out on the net, infrared is sized up at 25w per m3 of space, whereas space heating is sized up at 45w per m3 of space.

    There is the claimed increase in efficiency....must read some more...

    The price per kWh is the price per kWh, when pumped through a £300 panel the effect is the same as a £20 ALDI convector, put conversely your £300 could buy you 15 of the ALDI convector's with 5 times the power output instead of one of the the wimpy Redwell panels, that equates to 75 times more capability for the same money .. .. you choose .. .. the outcome benefit per kWh is the same .... your money - you choose.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • fishybusiness
    fishybusiness Posts: 1,263 Forumite
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    The price per kWh is the price per kWh

    I know that very well. The point I am trying to make is that it appears that after an incredible amount of reading, to put it in simple terms.....

    The electrical power required to heat a volumetric area is about 45 W per m3 for conventional space heating, and about 25 W per m3 for infrared heating.

    If, and only if that is true then there is some truth in ability of infrared to lower electricity bills.

    When I think of the cost of installing a wood burner, which in a lot of cases only actually warms one room, and wood isn't exactly cheap any more, I would happily use infrared panels at their reduced cost if they do actually do what they claim.

    No one has come up with a technical reason why they should or shouldn't work, and that is what I am trying to get to grips with :)
  • jalexa
    jalexa Posts: 3,448 Forumite
    edited 30 April 2012 at 9:27AM
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    fishybusiness wrote: »
    The electrical power required to heat a volumetric area is about 45 W per m3 for conventional space heating, and about 25 W per m3 for infrared heating.

    Your use of the term "volumetric area (of units m3)" is the flaw in the argument. While the infra-red panels can create a feeling of wellbeing at less energy consumed than (say) convection, the "volumetric area" is less heated. That might be a good thing but there are some design impacts for the location of the panels and the control system otherwise "effectiveness" and "economy" objectives will not be realised.

    On location the panels need to be unobstructed to be "effective", so at least above half wall height (though the dog will not thank you for that:D), and occupancy sensors are needed to achieve "economy".

    Good luck if you can achieve that but it is a far from trivial (and cost free) design and installation excercise.

    And just try selling a flat with "whacky" (or ceiling heating) these days.
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