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Parking ticket in Botanical Gardens

S_G
S_G Posts: 6 Forumite
edited 9 October 2016 at 8:12AM in Parking tickets, fines & parking
Hi,

I was a member of Botanical Garden in Birmingham for years back in 2011-2014. They have a car park that members used to park for free. During the last year of membership they added this Parking system that members need to enter the vehicle registration number at the entrance or will be fined. I did it every time until one day my kid ran inside and I forgot. We received a £60 parking ticket from Civil Enforcement Ltd with pictures of our car... I appealed and told them that I was a member there but they didn't accept then I complained to the Gardens and I didn't hear anything assuming it has been resolved.
Last week after 3 years we received a letter that we should pay £140 or they send it to the court!
I wrote to the Botanical Gardens saying this ticket is unfair as it was an authorised parking but they haven't replied back. Can anyone help please.
Thanks
«13

Comments

  • System
    System Posts: 178,077
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    Seems to be a hot spot for CEL. CEL specialise in undefended claims so wait to see whatever other paperwork comes you way.

    Keep all your correspondence as well. Assume you have evidence of a) being a member at the time and b) details of the free parking for members.
  • S_G
    S_G Posts: 6 Forumite
    Thanks for the reply. the parking in reality is free for members for 12 hours but it has one of these systems that you enter your vehicle registration number in the machine after you swipe your card which I forgot. Similar to rules in some ALDI or LIDL stores. Yes I have my membership card.

    I was completely put off by this unfair rule. We only paid £42 annual membership and it is totally normal that a family with kids forget to enter the reg number at the machine. I stopped being a member after that year as I did not agree to this rule!

    Once my appeal for parking in ALDI was accepted because I sent them the receipt of shopping in ALDI.
  • S_G
    S_G Posts: 6 Forumite
    Thanks for the reply. I even do not know if I forgot or the machine was in fault. I received the tickets days after by post.

    They should have accepted my appeal as I sent them the membership card.
  • Ralph-y
    Ralph-y Posts: 4,563
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    write back to botanical gardens and tell them you wish to cancel your membership as it has now become to expensive .... make sure you are using the correct email address .... cc to the CEO .....

    leave feedback on facebook / trip advisor

    good luck

    Ralph:cool:
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,603
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    edited 9 October 2016 at 12:59PM
    S_G wrote: »
    Thanks for the reply. I even do not know if I forgot or the machine was in fault. I received the tickets days after by post.

    They should have accepted my appeal as I sent them the membership card.

    Yes but that won't be your only defence point if they try a small claim. Come back if it happens after you've responded to this letter. We've seen a few CEL court papers this year but after we've provided a defence I cannot recall a SINGLE ONE which proceeded to a hearing. SO we can confidently tell you that a strong response now and/or a strong response in defence seems to see CEL give up and concentrate on weaker victims.
    During the last year of membership they added this Parking system
    As Henrik777 said in 'POPLA Decisions', they (the Botanical Gardens) cannot 'bolt on random carp' to a contract already concluded when you paid your membership.

    Basically new terms cannot be added.

    How were those onerous terms added? Did the Botanical Gardens write and say they were varying the membership terms and to note that £100 charge would apply...blah blah?! No? Just as I thought.

    As well as showing us a draft response to this letter (and NOT just saying 'you should have cancelled it, I was a member' - make it more like the CEL court defences you will find when you search the forum!) why not fight back by writing to Mrs May and your MP, as we are encouraging, to get this industry's wings clipped at least:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5524754

    NOW is the time for everyone scammed in this way to write to your MP and Mrs May. NOW.

    HTH
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Johno100
    Johno100 Posts: 5,259
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    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    As Henrik777 said in 'POPLA Decisions', they (the Botanical Gardens) cannot 'bolt on random carp' to a contract already concluded when you paid your membership.

    Basically new terms cannot be added.

    How were those onerous terms added? Did the Botanical Gardens write and say they were varying the membership terms and to note that £100 charge would apply...blah blah?! No? Just as I thought.

    Just for your information, it seems from these Trip Advisor comments that they've had a PPC in place for at least the last 3 years.

    https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g186402-d214008-r165750724-Birmingham_Botanical_Gardens_and_Glasshouses-Birmingham_West_Midlands_England.html

    Also there is no indication on their website that parking conditions are any different for members or none members. Car parking is free but all visitors (members and none members) have to record their car number plate upon arrival.

    http://www.birminghambotanicalgardens.org.uk/visitor-information/the-facilities/
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,603
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    edited 9 October 2016 at 2:38PM
    Yes, but if the OP had a long-term contract (membership) which he renewed each year, which did not bolt on this random carp, then it does not form part of the contract of membership he accepted by the consideration of paying his £47 in exchange for the licence granted by the Botanical Gardens.

    What we are trying to argue in defences for places like this or residents' permit agreements, is that the contract was already concluded with the supply of the permit/membership for that year. And if the agreement did not say something like this:

    'further terms that are part of this agreement are set out on signs in the car park. Please note that £100 charge may apply and there is a contractual obligation now, for members to input xyz details. So to avoid £100 charge, please ensure you read the signs and comply with the contractual obligations therein, every time before parking'

    ...then it was never incorporated into the contract.

    Otherwise (as a simple analogy I hope) employers could get away with taking someone on under a signed employment contract then put up signs in the office out of the blue about some random rubbish extra rules (and change them every week/month/year!) then charge their employees £100 for contravention of the signs in the office. Unions would have a field day!

    See what I mean, it's not part of the core contract at all, which was a stand-alone agreement already agreed which had no mention of any obligation to comply with signs. Unless the OP tells us that the membership DID mention £100 charge and an 'obligation', contract and signs.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • Johno100
    Johno100 Posts: 5,259
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    But in this case the parking provision is not connected to membership it applies to all visitors.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 130,603
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    edited 9 October 2016 at 2:48PM
    But the licence granted by membership supersedes and pre-dates it and was agreed/concluded as a contract, in writing and was paid for.

    A third party cannot bolt on random carp to a contract already existing. Laura Jopson's higher-level Appeal case covers that in some ways:

    http://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/milton-keynes-woman-secures-landmark-victory-for-flat-tenants-in-parking-dispute-1-7459066

    HTH
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Johno100
    Johno100 Posts: 5,259
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    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    But the licence granted by membership supersedes and pre-dates it and was agreed/concluded as a contract, in writing and was paid for.

    And if the agreement is silent on the matter of parking, because membership provides no special parking privileges over and above those offered to none members, then a member by dint of his/her special status doesn't have to comply with any changes in the car parking arrangements?
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