Goods Sold on to Third Party After Payment

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Comments

  • adh747
    adh747 Posts: 11 Forumite
    Thanks for the information.

    I'll go with your advice and see what transpires. I wasn't aware of 'conversion' but that's what effectively took place. However I think breach of contract is the more appropriate claim.

    I'll keep the thread updated with progress.

    Many Thanks.
  • unholyangel
    unholyangel Posts: 16,863 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    adh747 wrote: »
    Thanks for reply.

    We attempted as much mitigation as we could under the circumstances. We attempted to explain the situation we were in and asked the company to source the goods from elsewhere given the circumstances. They refused citing cost. We asked if they wanted to use an ADR but they ignored this request. We attempted to source the goods elsewhere with the minimum of extra cost and managed to negotiate a discount with the only supplier who had stock. In addition we minimised the costs incurred on us by third parties by informing them as soon as possible. However given that we weren't informed of the non delivery until the afternoon of the agreed delivery date, this was not great.

    It's a matter of fact that we paid for the goods in full and the company had the goods at time of payment and also at the time of confirming the delivery date. The company then went on to sell these goods at another customer. I can't see how this is legal as the goods transferred to us at time of payment. To sell those goods on is surely misappropriation of goods.

    Can you explain the definition of loss of bargain. I haven't come across this before. I've been reading the Consumer Rights Act but didn't find a reference to this term.


    You said there was no T&C's provided for the contract. Property passes when it is intended to pass (if there are no t&cs on the matter) - which is basically dependent on if/when the goods became ascertained. This is relevant to the old SoGA though - the new CRA doesn't have any sections covering transfer of ownership.

    This page explains it a bit:
    Under Rule 5 there are two main criteria to be assessed. The first is wherever there is unconditional appropriation. In other words, the goods in question have to be irrevocable earmarked and attached to the relevant contract. This means that there exists irrevocable identification of the goods which is beyond the power for the seller to substitute goods as seen in Carlos Federspiel & Co SA v Charles Twigg & Co Ltd. In Carlos Federspiel, the seller agreed to sell some bicycles to the buyer. The seller packed the bicycles and agreed to a ‘free on board'. The seller then went into liquidation. The buyers argued that the bicycles were theirs but the courts held that merely segregating the goods was not a sufficient unconditional appropriation. The second criterion is whether the appropriation was afforded with the proper assent from a party to the contract. In this case there is an unconditional appropriation because when the buyer accepts delivery it is considered assent and there actually was delivery in this case.

    The difference in ascertained goods can probably be exampled best by cars. Go to a dealers forecourt and enter into a contract to buy a black audi with registration xyz and thats a contract for specific goods so providing its not a conditional contract, property would pass when the contract is made.

    In comparison, you go to a dealers and order from a brochure, a car made to your specifications and its not a contract for specific goods (there are terms defining what the goods should be, but theres no car you can identify at the moment of entering into the contract as being the car you are buying), in those circumstances property likely wouldnt pass until delivery was made.


    Perhaps you might be best getting a free half hour initial consultation with a solicitor to see what losses they think you have a claim for?
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
  • adh747
    adh747 Posts: 11 Forumite
    Perhaps you might be best getting a free half hour initial consultation with a solicitor to see what losses they think you have a claim for?

    I've already had several phone calls with legal advice provided by my house insurance and also my professional Union membership. I've been told as I had no choice but to purchase from an alternative supplier, due to the circumstances, I can claim the extra costs above what I had paid for the original order. The other incurred costs should also be claimable but it may be argued that these could have been avoided, although I'm not sure how.

    I'm trying to gain as much advice as possible before doing anything so I can make an informed decision. Anytime anything goes to court, the outcome is never guaranteed.
  • unholyangel
    unholyangel Posts: 16,863 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    adh747 wrote: »
    I've already had several phone calls with legal advice provided by my house insurance and also my professional Union membership. I've been told as I had no choice but to purchase from an alternative supplier, due to the circumstances, I can claim the extra costs above what I had paid for the original order. The other incurred costs should also be claimable but it may be argued that these could have been avoided, although I'm not sure how.

    I'm trying to gain as much advice as possible before doing anything so I can make an informed decision. Anytime anything goes to court, the outcome is never guaranteed.

    I was more just pointing out property passing is a moot point in the circumstances. If you were chasing for specific performance/delivery of the goods then it might be more important but in a claim for damages, its negligible as it doesn't affect what damages you can claim or whether you have a claim for damages.

    However, on the plus side, it would be for the retailer to show you could have taken reasonable steps to mitigate your loss but didnt, (or that you took unreasonable steps and allowed your losses to mount up).
    Basically even if you took unreasonable steps/failed to take reasonable steps, it wouldn't result in your claim being dismissed, just you would be awarded damages on the basis of you having taken those reasonable steps.

    Have you put a total value on your claim yet? Have you sent a letter before action to the retailer yet?
    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride
  • adh747
    adh747 Posts: 11 Forumite
    Yes pre action letter sent and total claim calculated. Company has refused any responsibility and ignored request for mediation.
  • adh747
    adh747 Posts: 11 Forumite
    Hi All,

    Thought I'd update everyone on what transpired with regards to this dispute.

    I filed a County Court Claim through Moneyclaimonline against the company (Eco Systems Distribution Ltd). The company filed a defence and the case went to a hearing on the 1st March 2017. The judge ruled in our favour with regards to the selling of goods we had paid for to another party. The company was ordered to pay the difference between what the goods cost us from another supplier and what we had paid them. In addition our costs of taking the action was refunded including the costs of attending court. The judge didn't however find in our favour with regards to consequential loss. However we received back the bulk of our extra costs and it was satisfying to see the company finally face the penalty of breach of contract. Quite amazing that they fought this so hard and will have ended up paying out significantly more than they would have done had they negotiated with us to start with. They refused to compromise during mediation. In addition three of the company employees including their Director turned up for the hearing which incurred hotel costs for the night as they had a long journey from their offices in Sussex!

    It was a very interesting process and even though we had a strong case for awarding consequential losses the judge on the day felt we hadn't made 'time of the essence' when arranging delivery of the goods. She therefore could not award these costs in her opinion.

    Anyway the company have now paid up and I would encourage anyone in similar circumstances to take similar action provided you have strong evidence. Thankfully we had records of calls made and even one call which was recorded on a car dashcam. This provided sufficient evidence of a confirmed delivery date which the company had constantly denied.

    Hope the above update is useful:)
  • Fosterdog
    Fosterdog Posts: 4,948 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Thanks for coming back and letting us know how you got on and well done on winning "most of" your claim. Hopefully the company will be a bit more careful with how they handle already paid for goods in the future and now know that they may well be liable for additional costs if they fail to take reasonable care.
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