Engagement ring stolen, sold to pawn shop - Legal question?

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  • fluffnutter
    fluffnutter Posts: 23,179 Forumite
    Nicki wrote: »
    Your phone bill will show whether you dialled the number of that pawn shop and whether your call lasted long enough for you to tell them about the stolen ring. So, if you did phone them, you will have evidence which can be used in a prosecution of the date and time of the call. The pawn shop should also have records of when they accepted the ring.

    So the first step is to check that you have evidence that you called them, and if you do, the second step is to notify the police and the local Trading Standards people so that a prosecution/revocation of their license can be considered. If you have no such evidence, then there is no second step.

    I am sure that OP is as cross with her uncle, if not more so, than she is with the pawn shop. However, if she notified them of the theft, then of course it is right to pursue them if they nonetheless accepted the ring. I am baffled with people who want to protect the pawn shop's right to knowingly fence stolen goods and who presumably want such a facility in their areas where those who burgle or pickpocket them can easily dispose of their goods for cash!

    I'm certainly not wishing to 'protect the pawn shop's right to knowingly fence stolen goods'. Rather that, on the strength of the opening post the OP simply doesn't have enough evidence. Nor do I believe that the length of the original phone call will in any way confirm the assertion that they were told about the theft, although it will of course confirm whether this particular shop was called or not.
    "Growth for growth's sake is the ideology of the cancer cell" - Edward Abbey.
  • Dreamnine
    Dreamnine Posts: 8,370 Forumite
    You got the ring back - what else do you need/want?

    Aside from prosecuting your larcenous uncle.
    I shot a vein in my neck and coughed up a Quaalude.
    Lou Reed The Last Shot
  • cbrown372
    cbrown372 Posts: 1,513
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    Emzycal wrote: »
    Not sure if I'm posting this in the right place, but it seems the best place to post it.

    Long story short - my engagement ring was stolen and sold to a Cash Converters/Cash Generator type place by my Uncle who was living in my Grans house as was I at the time.

    The police have recovered it and I have it back, and we are waiting for them to arrest my uncle.

    The thing is, on the morning the ring was stolen, right after I noticed it missing, my Mum and I phoned every single pawn shop in the city and I'm fairly certain we phoned the one he sold it to. So if they'd already taken it, they should have contacted the police. And if they hadn't had it already, they should have known full well not to buy it.

    My question is, can I take any legal action against the shop in question? Since they were clearly told that X was stolen and that Y may be in to try to sell it to them? They were given all the details they'd need to avoid the purchase of the ring, yet still took it or had already taken it and neglected to inform the police.

    so how did the police recover the ring?
    Its not that we have more patience as we grow older, its just that we're too tired to care about all the pointless drama ;)
  • Dreamnine
    Dreamnine Posts: 8,370 Forumite
    I take it said Uncle will be removed from your Xmas card list?
    I shot a vein in my neck and coughed up a Quaalude.
    Lou Reed The Last Shot
  • Nicki
    Nicki Posts: 8,166 Forumite
    I'm certainly not wishing to 'protect the pawn shop's right to knowingly fence stolen goods'. Rather that, on the strength of the opening post the OP simply doesn't have enough evidence. Nor do I believe that the length of the original phone call will in any way confirm the assertion that they were told about the theft, although it will of course confirm whether this particular shop was called or not.

    Clearly a bill showing the number called and the length of the call, does not prove what was said during the call itself. However, if the record exists, it will be corroborating evidence of the OP's statement to the police that she did call this pawn shop and tell them of the theft. Why else would she phone the shop (and a number of other shops in the area, which her phone records will also show) if not to impart this information?

    My understanding is that pawn shops are quite strictly regulated, and that if they are put on notice that an item has been stolen and may be presented, they are expected to ask for proof of ownership.

    In any case, as I have said more than once on this forum, it isn't for a victim of a crime to provide all the evidence, and there is no need to hold off reporting a crime to the police until evidence is to hand. If you believe yourself to be the victim of a crime, then you are perfectly entitled to report this to the police and to voice your suspicions in respect of everyone involved in the crime, and it is then for the police to investigate that crime and if there is sufficient evidence to decide in conjunction with the CPS whether to take action against the perpetrator.

    If the pawn shop knew the ring was stolen and accepted it, then they deserve to be put out of business, and OP should not be deterred from reporting their role in things. If there isn't enough evidence at the end of the day to support the OP's accusation, then no action will be taken against the shop but that doesn't mean she shouldn't at least ask for their actions to be investigated.
  • 74jax
    74jax Posts: 7,921
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    My ex stole a lot of my belongings and pawned them. I too called pawn shops who said they had nothing matching that description. My family liaison officer went to the pawn shops for me and recovered most items - and the date they were pawned was before I called! Why the didn't tell me when I called I don't know but I don't care, when he gave me them I hugged him! I'd just be happy you have it.
    Forty and fabulous, well that's what my cards say....
  • meritaten
    meritaten Posts: 24,158 Forumite
    I would guess that a pawn shop would be very wary of some random person phoning them about 'stolen' property. they have no way of knowing that you are actually the legal owner - entirely different if a police officer comes in with a description/list of stolen property.
    as for suing the pawn shop - I doubt you would get far. unless they were previously given the list of stolen property by the police they can always claim they bought the items in good faith.
    perhaps you can just be grateful you have your property back?
  • peachyprice
    peachyprice Posts: 22,346
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    meritaten wrote: »
    I would guess that a pawn shop would be very wary of some random person phoning them about 'stolen' property. they have no way of knowing that you are actually the legal owner - entirely different if a police officer comes in with a description/list of stolen property.
    as for suing the pawn shop - I doubt you would get far. unless they were previously given the list of stolen property by the police they can always claim they bought the items in good faith.
    perhaps you can just be grateful you have your property back?

    This, exactly.
    Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear
  • Dreamnine wrote: »
    You got the ring back - what else do you need/want?

    Aside from prosecuting your larcenous uncle.

    technically you could sue the uncle for conversion but I'd just be grateful you got the ring back. what a nasty man your uncle is!
  • Nicki
    Nicki Posts: 8,166 Forumite
    edited 16 September 2012 at 9:58PM
    meritaten wrote: »
    I would guess that a pawn shop would be very wary of some random person phoning them about 'stolen' property. they have no way of knowing that you are actually the legal owner - entirely different if a police officer comes in with a description/list of stolen property.

    The point is not that the pawn shop did not have proof that OP was the legal owner of the ring, but that they were put on notice that the uncle was not the legal owner and the ring was stolen, and they still either accepted the ring without asking for proof of ownership, or retained it without notifying either OP or the police that they had it, with a view to selling it on if it was not redeemed within the time period. They could not therefore claim bailment in good faith, nor could they sell it on believing they had indisputable legal title to do so. As the law allows stolen goods to be traced, anyone who bought the ring from the pawnbroker could have ended up without both the ring and the money they had paid for it.

    If an art dealer reads in the paper that the Louvre has suffered a break in and several works of art have been stolen, is he then entitled to take on face value that a seller offering the Mona Lisa is its legal owner and broker a sale to a third party, because he has not been contacted by the police directly and the Louvre has not sent him evidence of legal ownership of the painting?

    Besides which, for those who think the pawn shop is not liable for its role in all of this, then there is no harm no foul if OP reports their actions to the police. She will simply be told by the police that there is nothing which can be done and the shop will not be bothered in any way by her report. There will only be an issue for the shop if they are legally liable in some way - in which case OP would be right to report it, no?
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