Roof valley material not matching architects spec ?
Comments
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I think this is more complicated than it appears.
Clearly a valley constructed with built-up bituminous felt is not equivalent to a lead valley. As you say yourself the felt valley will last 15 years, the lead probably in excess of 100 years.
The complication is the fact that the valley is 18" wide. That is very unusual and must be like that for a reason, it would usually be about 4". The extra wide valley can be formed in lead but it would be very expensive, the total width of the lead would be around 800mm which is right on the limit of the maximum width for Code 5 lead or you have a roll joint down the middle.
I think you need to go back to the architect and ask why the valley is so unusual. If it was shown on the drawings like that then chances are the builder did price it using felt as he knew lead would have been prohibitively expensive.....but in an ideal world he would have mentioned this in his quotation. I would take a more pragmatic approach and check the break down of costs for the roof work and see if it would be reasonable that the figure quoted would have been for felt or lead.
I am quite troubled by the fact that the valley is so wide and I think the architect has got some answering to do. How about a photo?0 -
I think this is more complicated than it appears.
Clearly a valley constructed with built-up bituminous felt is not equivalent to a lead valley. As you say yourself the felt valley will last 15 years, the lead probably in excess of 100 years.
The complication is the fact that the valley is 18" wide. That is very unusual and must be like that for a reason, it would usually be about 4". The extra wide valley can be formed in lead but it would be very expensive, the total width of the lead would be around 800mm which is right on the limit of the maximum width for Code 5 lead or you have a roll joint down the middle.
I think you need to go back to the architect and ask why the valley is so unusual. If it was shown on the drawings like that then chances are the builder did price it using felt as he knew lead would have been prohibitively expensive.....but in an ideal world he would have mentioned this in his quotation. I would take a more pragmatic approach and check the break down of costs for the roof work and see if it would be reasonable that the figure quoted would have been for felt or lead.
I am quite troubled by the fact that the valley is so wide and I think the architect has got some answering to do. How about a photo?
I agree with most of your post except the highlighted. Although I'm not a lead man I have formed plenty of valleys over the years and rarely if ever come across 4" wide valleys. This is far too narrow for a valley when you consider all the build up of moss etc that roofs get over the years and a 4" valley would block up really quickly.. Typically around here dependant on the length a valley would be at the very least wide enough to easily walk down to clean out and work on the roof when tiles get dislodged etc.
The wider the valley the easier it is for water to be dispersed off the roof.The longer the roof length is the wider the valley should be to get the water away. Thats why Church roof valleys tend to be wide because they ahve large roofs ,so lots of water to get away as quickly as possible.
At least thats what we were taught at college..
Maybe the OP should clarify what they mean by a valley.. It can be one of at least two types.A photograph would help Teneighty..........
One example below: Its a church but plenty of houses have them where two roofs meet .
http://www.ajrestoration.co.uk/images/All%20Saints%20Church_Milton%20Keynes23_17-10-2003.jpg0 -
Even after reading your reply I still see no reason to change anything I said in post #3I'm only here while I wait for Corrie to start.
You get no BS from me & if I think you are wrong I WILL tell you.0 -
southcoastrgi wrote: »Even after reading your reply I still see no reason to change anything I said in post #3
The OP sent me a PM with some photo's and it seems there was an issue with the headroom in the bathroom so there is an area of flat roof with a skylight/sunpipe around the top end of the valley which is very wide and would need to have lead rolls (not a problem) but its very wide. This isn't shown on the architects drawing (one long valley) but the moment the builder set their levels they should have seen the issue and discussed it with the OP and give him the options of felt,lead or fibregalss.
This top valley then goes down into a lower (narrow) valley which has again been finished in felt when at the very least this could have been done in fibreglass or even better lead.
Sounds like a lack of communication form the builders rather than a bodge up.0 -
I've seen the photos now and it is a horizontal valley or tapered box gutter between 2 pitched roofs, like levellers link provided, not a pitched valley as I originally thought.
In fact the valley is so wide it is like a flat roof between 2 pitched roofs. I think the villain in this story is the "architect" and not the builder, although the builder could have been more forthcoming in the changes he made to overcome the "architects" mistakes.
If davisi33 agrees I will try to post the photos.0 -
Its taken a while to get answers from the relevant parties but I am back and would appreciate any more constructive input please ?
The final buildings certificate has not yet been issued as the build is still live and the final inspection not completed.
I contacted buildings control about the felt used and was advised that the
"torch on three-layer high performance felt product used on the flat roof and valley area is suitable and appropriate for this type of application."
So it appears that the material meets the requirements of Building control. I am still waiting for the Building Inspector to get back to me with details of the BBA Certificate and the actual name of the material used however.
When I contacted the architect we used , who recommended the builder, he (not surprisingly) said that in his opinion the "high performance felt" did meet the specification that he had written.
So it looks like I am on my own, The builder is adamant that the felt is a suitable equivalent but I am not happy with a material being used which is only guaranteed for 15 years.
Not sure what my next move should be ?
It is not the role of the Building Inspector to issue you with a BBA Certificate, and you have to be realistic here. The inspector may not know what product was used, and they will not know if it has been correctly installed. Further, sensing a dispute is present, they will be reluctant to get involved.
In essence you have a dispute between yourself, the architect and the builder. Each party may have a guilt in this. Harsh as it seems it may include yourself.
The only way forward is an independent person to wade through matters. A competent, experienced Chartered Building Surveyor would be a route, but an experienced Clerk of Works would be my first line of thought. In general, this would also be a cheaper option.0
This discussion has been closed.
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