Forced parenthood
Comments
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wannabe_sybil wrote: »Isn't there something called 'stealthing' where a gentleman tries to fool the lady that he's using a condom but takes it off during/just before?
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Actually, that would be called rape. If she consented to sex on the basis that he wore a condom then that consent does not extend to consent without one.All posts are my personal opinion, not formal advice Always get proper, professional advice (particularly about anything legal!)0 -
Yes things can go wrong, with condoms or the pill, but the PP was talking about lying about being on the pill, not refusing to take it. That's just as bad as lying about using a condom (or "stealthing"as it's apparently known as, strange there's not a word for the woman lying about protection).
not really. The equivalent of a woman lying about being on the pill would be a man lying about having had a vasectomy. Removing a condom part way through is totally different.
And if someone tells you they are on the pill or have had a vasectomy or hysterectomy or tubal ligation then it is still your choice as to whether you take the risk that they are lying or that the medication r operation isn't fully effective, or whether you take responsibility for yourself and use (or insist your partner uses) a condom as well, as that way you both *know* that you are using protection, rather than one of you hoping that the other is.All posts are my personal opinion, not formal advice Always get proper, professional advice (particularly about anything legal!)0 -
Problem is that using additional protection when your partner say that are doing so themselves implies an issue with trust. If you don't trust that they are being honest about this why would you trust anything else?
I think women lying about being on the pill when they know their partner don't want a child are utterly selfish and would have no sympathy for them if their partner left them as a result.0 -
Well, apparently it happens and there's even a special term for it!Red-Squirrel wrote: »I find it very hard to believe that any woman wouldn't realise her partner wasn't wearing a condom.
Agreed, and great in theory, but in the real world it doesn't always happen. Same if the partner says they haven't got an STD - though I seem to remember a case where someone was prosecuted for having sex when they knew they had an STD?I think lying about taking the pill is only relevant in a long term committed relationship where there is supposed to be complete trust. Before that stage both parties should be taking their own measures and not relying on the other at all.
Well quite, but like with STDs, deliberately lying about eg using a pill, using a condom, or other protection method should be an offence.Even then, its not 'forced' parenthood because as someone else says above, any adult having consensual sex should realise that there is always a small risk of pregnancy, even if everybody is doing everything they should be doing to prevent it! People have got pregnant on the pill, on implants, on the coil, all sorts.
Proving it of course might be hard, but that applies to a lot of sexual offences.0 -
It's probably carelessness most of the time, eg like someone else said about getting the runs, or taking it with other medication, or not taking it at the right time etc, these things are all warned about in the leaflet. Or simply forgetting.euronorris wrote: »The issue I have with this is, yes, there are a few women who would do that, but they are in the minority.
However, a large number of men who find themselves becoming a father because of pill failure seem to automatically assume that they've been lied to. The trust they previously had for their partner seems to fly out of the window, despite all contraceptives clearly stating that they have a failure rate. They are not fool proof.
But there seems to be a bad habit of automatically assuming that the woman lied, rather than accepting that the possibility of contraceptive failure was always there.
My wife was on a type of pill for a while that had to be taken within a tight window, but she's very good at that sort of thing. I'm on medication and sometimes forget to take it, luckily not the type of medication that matters if you miss the occasional one.0 -
It's not significantly different - you consent to sex on the basis of your partner using contraception - what's the difference what form that contraception takes? I suppose there's a point re STDs, but not pregnancy.not really. The equivalent of a woman lying about being on the pill would be a man lying about having had a vasectomy. Removing a condom part way through is totally different.
A bloke putting on a condom and then whipping it off when she wasn't looking would be a bit like a woman showing her partner putting a pill in her mouth but then spitting it out when he's not looking!
I suppose with a condom if you check carefully you can be sure it's not been removed. Depending on the, er, position I guess! Maybe only use positions where you can keep an eye on things all the time, if you don't trust your partner 100%!And if someone tells you they are on the pill or have had a vasectomy or hysterectomy or tubal ligation then it is still your choice as to whether you take the risk that they are lying or that the medication r operation isn't fully effective, or whether you take responsibility for yourself and use (or insist your partner uses) a condom as well, as that way you both *know* that you are using protection, rather than one of you hoping that the other is.
And of course condoms can come off by accident too.0 -
It's not significantly different - you consent to sex on the basis of your partner using contraception - what's the difference what form that contraception takes? I suppose there's a point re STDs, but not pregnancy.
A bloke putting on a condom and then whipping it off when she wasn't looking would be a bit like a woman showing her partner putting a pill in her mouth but then spitting it out when he's not looking.
But the STD thing makes it totally different! Whether a woman takes a pill or not, the man should know he takes a risk she will get pregnant if he has sex with her, what changes is the level of that same risk.
If a man removes a condom without the woman's consent, he could be exposing her to illnesses that could risk her fertility, that could be life changing or even life shortening, that she has not agreed to take a chance on, as the man has with pregnancy.0 -
OK, so what if the man is sure that he has no STDs, for instance he's a virgin, or he's been medically checked out, or it's with a long term partner who he's been exclusive with and they've previously had unprotected sex and now she wants him to wear a condom for whatever reason (eg she's come off the pill). Does that now make it OK?Red-Squirrel wrote: »But the STD thing makes it totally different! Whether a woman takes a pill or not, the man should know he takes a risk she will get pregnant if he has sex with her, what changes is the level of that same risk.
If a man removes a condom without the woman's consent, he could be exposing her to illnesses that could risk her fertility, that could be life changing or even life shortening, that she has not agreed to take a chance on, as the man has with pregnancy.
I somehow doubt it
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OK, so what if the man is sure that he has no STDs, for instance he's a virgin, or he's been medically checked out, or it's with a long term partner who he's been exclusive with and they've previously had unprotected sex and now she wants him to wear a condom for whatever reason (eg she's come off the pill). Does that now make it OK?
I somehow doubt it
Of course not, if the agreement is condom or no sex, either party doing otherwise is a scumbag who is in the wrong.0
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