So now I have a solar PV system how do I make the most of it???
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jackieblack wrote: »Oh well, if it's printed in The Guardian that must make it true then!
:rotfl:
No possibility the author has an axe to grind? (or a book to sell?)
You really need to do your research on George Monbiot. He is an environmentalist and champion of all things 'Green'. So you would expect him to be in favour of any scheme that promotes solar; instead about FITs he writes:Those who hate environmentalism have spent years looking for the definitive example of a great green rip-off. Finally it arrives, and nobody notices. The government is about to shift £8.6bn from the poor to the middle classes. It expects a loss on this scheme of £8.2bn, or 95%. Yet the media is silent. The opposition urges only that the scam should be expanded.
On 1 April the government introduces its feed-in tariffs. These oblige electricity companies to pay people for the power they produce at home. The money will come from their customers in the form of higher bills. It would make sense, if we didn't know that the technologies the scheme will reward are comically inefficient..............
In other words, the government acknowledges that micro wind and solar PV in the UK are between seven and nine times less cost-effective than the alternatives.0 -
digitaltoast wrote: »So I'm still struggling to see where the value is in paying people over a £1000 extra per year for it. Where are my economics failing me?
I'm sure that your economics is fine, but that isn't the point. The whole idea is to get people to put their hands in their pockets to install solar generating capacity - that isn't going to be the poor, is it? It will be the middle classes who forego that new car to invest in something that they think will help the environment (and yes, make money out of it too).
The objective is to crank up the solar capacity whilst we have the opportunity, hopefully before the energy prices go through the roof (when the Chinese and Indian populations decide that they want the same standard of living as we have and therefore burn the same amount of energy at exactly the point when the availability starts reducing) and we are then entirely beholden to the various Arab states for oil, and Putin and his rich mates for our gas.
So, no point in harping on about the sun not shining at night - we all know that. We need a massive shift in the way we use energy to variable tariffs which encourage use when the energy is available (France has been doing it for over 20 years) and the technology to support it. We don't have that yet, but we can still slam in the solar capacity so that it is there when we need it and in the meantime benefit from reduced CO2 emissions.4kWp, Panels: 16 Hyundai HIS250MG, Inverter: SMA Sunny Boy 4000TLLocation: Bedford, Roof: South East facing, 20 degree pitch20kWh Pylontech US5000 batteries, Lux AC inverter,Skoda Enyaq iV80, TADO Central Heating control0 -
The objective is to crank up the solar capacity whilst we have the opportunity, hopefully before the energy prices go through the roof (when the Chinese and Indian populations decide that they want the same standard of living as we have and therefore burn the same amount of energy at exactly the point when the availability starts reducing) and we are then entirely beholden to the various Arab states for oil, and Putin and his rich mates for our gas.
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In that case, I hope we start to put up more solar panels a hell of a lot quicker than we have up to now. Are you sure we have enough roofs to put up enough panels? Any idea how much it would cost?
Drax - our large coal plant, which also burns quite a lot of biomass too - last year generated in 12 minutes what all the solar panels on people's roofs did in a year.
Does that illustrate anything to you? Does it help explain the Uber-green Monbiot's views on solar?
As to your comment about the sun not shining at night - well yes, we all know that. It is the implications of that which seems not to be understood (or even, I suspect, understandable to many). I hope someone else will come and explain the implications.0 -
grahamc2003 wrote: »Drax - our large coal plant, which also burns quite a lot of biomass too), last year generated in 12 minutes what all the solar panels on people's roofs did in a year.
Does that illustrate anything to you?
To add to that, I've been watching an HS2 (High Speed 2 - the mental new rail project) thread on another forum, about how HS2 is not going to be as green as claimed by the pro-HS2 fanatics, and given the numbers, I came to the following conclusion:
Just ONE HS2 electric train pulling out of the station on a bright clear sunny July mid-day would use 50% of the UK's entire installed generating capacity. And remember, that's installed capacity, excluding 24% total losses for inversion, transmission etc.
Now make that rush hour on a December evening, with 12 trains running. What fills the gap? A load of Duracell bunnies?!?
As Graham said: Does that illustrate anything to you?0 -
i really must be missing something here
the title of this thread is:
So now I have a solar PV system how do I make the most of it???
I have a solar system and
a) I'm really looking forward to the fat cheques I'm gonna get (tax free & Index linked) for the next 25 years
b) I'm really enjoying the quite large reduction in my electrical use (even in winter a drop of approx 40% per month so far)
c) today has been a lovely sunny day, I've done a full dishwash. 2 full machine washes, hoovered, and had several lovely cups of tea. and my meter hasnt moved
d) to the sour grapes, cry more please.0 -
digitaltoast wrote: »Just ONE HS2 electric train pulling out of the station on a bright clear sunny July mid-day would use 50% of the UK's entire installed generating capacity. And remember, that's installed capacity, excluding 24% total losses for inversion, transmission etc.
Wow! that really is a lot of power;)
Isn't the word 'solar' missing?0 -
Just to add my two-penneth into the discussion. I have solar panels installed on my roof not because it is the green or environmentally friendly thing to do (although it probably is), I have had them installed simply because I should make some money out of it (although some people may disagree).
Now if someone wants to pay me back the money I spent on installing the panels I would happily forgo the FIT payments (excluding export).
Any offers?0 -
I'm sure that your economics is fine, but that isn't the point. The whole idea is to get people to put their hands in their pockets to install solar generating capacity - that isn't going to be the poor, is it? It will be the middle classes who forego that new car to invest in something that they think will help the environment (and yes, make money out of it too).
The objective is to crank up the solar capacity whilst we have the opportunity, hopefully before the energy prices go through the roof (when the Chinese and Indian populations decide that they want the same standard of living as we have and therefore burn the same amount of energy at exactly the point when the availability starts reducing) and we are then entirely beholden to the various Arab states for oil, and Putin and his rich mates for our gas.
So, no point in harping on about the sun not shining at night - we all know that. We need a massive shift in the way we use energy to variable tariffs which encourage use when the energy is available (France has been doing it for over 20 years) and the technology to support it. We don't have that yet, but we can still slam in the solar capacity so that it is there when we need it and in the meantime benefit from reduced CO2 emissions.
OK even if one accepts your argument, why have solar PV on(often unsuitable) roofs in far flung locations and pay the house owners huge subsidies.
To make matters worse, they don't even have to export a watt of that generated energy as they could use it all in the house - albeit most will export some electricity.
Why not have it generated on far more efficient huge solar farms in ideal locations and pay a lower subsidy; and all of the generated electricity is exported?0 -
i really must be missing something here
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Yes you are.
There's little doubt that you will get a fat cheque for a few years (I doubt it will be anything like 25 years though).
If that's all you are saying, then there's not a great deal to discuss.
But some of us (a very few) like to look at systems to see if they benefit society in general, rather than burden the majority (many who have no spare cash at the end of the month) for the benefit of the minority who, in general, will be better off on average than those who are paying them the fat cheques.
Away from finances are the considerations of whether solar in the uk is environmentally sound. My view is that it isn't - it is wasteful of resources due to redundancy for various reasons.
(Oh, and btw, if I could control nature, I would ensure that we could all stick a solar panel on our roof and then have all the 'free' electricity we need to run our washing machines, electric cars, trains and everything else, and that we could close all our existing power stations and dismantle the grid. But until then, I think we have to deal with the situation nature gave us).0 -
OK even if one accepts your argument, why have solar PV on(often unsuitable) roofs in far flung locations and pay the house owners huge subsidies.
Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feed-in_tariff
alternatively, instead of bleating on here (a money saving forum!)every other message the same thing, try writing to your MP.To make matters worse, they don't even have to export a watt of that generated energy as they could use it all in the house - albeit most will export some electricity.
why is it worse? the electricity is being used. what does it matter in which house it is?Why not have it generated on far more efficient huge solar farms in ideal locations and pay a lower subsidy; and all of the generated electricity is exported?
why not write to your MP?
ps thanks for subsidising my FiT 0
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