UPDATED: Air Source Heat Pumps/Air Con - Full Info & Guide, is it cheaper to run than mains gas?

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  • He said that oil a d lpg price is similar but with lpg you can get fixed price and avoid price jumps as it happens with oil i.e. summer/winter.

    Also, calor gas does a deal where they provide tank and its installation for free providing I sign up with them for 2 years after which I can just cancel and look for other suppliers. Plus boilers are cheaper than oil. If I was to go for oil, i need to install tank at my own cost, boilers are more expensive and as mentioned pricr changes according to seasons.

    Should I check if oil companies offer something like that..?
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,036 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post Rampant Recycler
    There is a very long thread about LPG on this section of the forum which I suggest you read and ask questions.


    I haven't followed it that closely, but I am aware that Calor's business practices come in for criticism.
  • Silent_Dancer
    Silent_Dancer Posts: 193 Forumite
    aggydebt wrote: »
    He said that oil a d lpg price is similar but with lpg you can get fixed price and avoid price jumps as it happens with oil i.e. summer/winter.

    Also, calor gas does a deal where they provide tank and its installation for free providing I sign up with them for 2 years after which I can just cancel and look for other suppliers. Plus boilers are cheaper than oil. If I was to go for oil, i need to install tank at my own cost, boilers are more expensive and as mentioned pricr changes according to seasons.

    Should I check if oil companies offer something like that..?
    Calor offer commission to installers who bring them leads for new LPG installations. Follow Cardew's advice and read the LPG thread. Oil is significantly cheaper than LPG.
  • Hi there iam new to all this does anyone know how to remove radiators of one of theese systems i know there filled with antifreeze to stop freezing etc ,we need to reroute a radiator so therefore need to drain the system completely any advice welcomed
  • it's very interesting
  • This thread is an excellent source of information regarding Air-to-Water heat pumps and Air Conditioning units.

    At the moment I am in the early stages of planing a house, and I am considering a Daikin Heat Pump together with solar panels for Domestic Hot Water and to heat the house. From what I have read, these types of systems are much more efficient when using fan convectors instead of "normal passive" radiators.

    In your opinion, what are the advantages and disadvantages of both fan convectors and normal radiators?

    Some of these systems, in particular the Daikin Altherma, also allow to make cold, but in this case, there is the need to use fan convectors. Are these compared with Air Conditioning Units? To make cold, what would be the best? Air conditioning units or heat pump making cold with fan convectors?

    This last question might lead to another one. Does it makes any sense to install AC units together a Heat Pump system that might make cold?

    Thank you all in advanced!
  • skhell wrote: »
    This thread is an excellent source of information regarding Air-to-Water heat pumps and Air Conditioning units.

    At the moment I am in the early stages of planing a house, and I am considering a Daikin Heat Pump together with solar panels for Domestic Hot Water and to heat the house. From what I have read, these types of systems are much more efficient when using fan convectors instead of "normal passive" radiators.

    In your opinion, what are the advantages and disadvantages of both fan convectors and normal radiators?

    Some of these systems, in particular the Daikin Altherma, also allow to make cold, but in this case, there is the need to use fan convectors. Are these compared with Air Conditioning Units? To make cold, what would be the best? Air conditioning units or heat pump making cold with fan convectors?

    This last question might lead to another one. Does it makes any sense to install AC units together a Heat Pump system that might make cold?

    Thank you all in advanced!

    First question for you: Is there gas to the property? If there is then gas central heating is your better option unless you want air conditioning also. Gas per KW unit is still cheaper in the UK than a KW of electricity and on a modern efficient boiler is therefore going to give you cheaper heating than an air source heat pump. I'm a pro air con but I know from having air con in my house its still cheaper to heat the house with the gas boiler and radiators. I wouldn't be without the air con though.

    To answer your other questions, Fan convector's vs radiators: Fan convector's or otherwise known as fan coil units you will have a quick heat up of the building as the system is using warm air to heat so you have quick response times. You also then benefit from being able to use lower flow temps (although you could install fan convector's with a gas boiler and achieve the same) which overall make it more efficient.

    The disadvantages are that there is no residual heat so once the room reaches temp and the fan coil switches at thermostat there will be no slow heat released like there is from radiators. Some people also prefer radiators as they are often positioned under windows and this helps alleviate draughts from the window (tip if you do go this route make sure your rads or fan coils are positioned under windows). Radiators give out radiant heat which is the same as being sat in front of a fire or being in the sun, this generally can be a more pleasant heat to some people. There's usually less to go wrong on a radiator than a convector, no filters to service and no fan motors to fail or coils to clean. However you will lose cooling and personally I have both, I have a multi split air con system which provides cooling in the summer and in spring/autumn where I don't want to heat the house I use it on heat to heat the room I am occupying. Then when I am heating the whole house on goes the gas boiler I do occasionally use the air con also to boost the temp of certain rooms if its very cold as supplementary heating.

    The key to energy savings is to run your flow temp as low as you can so the rads are barely warm. You oversize radiators to achieve this on a heat pump. The other 3rd option is underfloor heating which must use low flow temps by design, these systems are slow to respond as your heating the floor slab which then in turn heats the space. This gives a very even heat distribution in the room you dont get hot or cold spots, the disadvantages are that the system must be left on all the time in winter and its slow to respond so if it becomes hot or in spring summer it takes a while to stabilise if your turning the system off and thus back on if you have a cold snap. But this is regulated with zone controls.

    So overall if you have gas to the property go for a gas boiler with either rads or fan coils dependant on your preference and information you can find. A heat pump is more efficient with underfloor heating, fan convectors then oversized radiators.
    If you found my post helpful, please remember to press the THANKS button! --->
  • First question for you: Is there gas to the property? If there is then gas central heating is your better option unless you want air conditioning also. Gas per KW unit is still cheaper in the UK than a KW of electricity and on a modern efficient boiler is therefore going to give you cheaper heating than an air source heat pump. I'm a pro air con but I know from having air con in my house its still cheaper to heat the house with the gas boiler and radiators. I wouldn't be without the air con though.
    I have never considered Gas, and always thought than a good Heat Pump would be cheaper than a gas boiler. Also, I still don't know there is plumb gas near the house.

    I forgot to say, but I am located in Portugal in a really hot zone (in the summer), where the temperatures never goes lower that 0 degrees. But in the summer is very frequent to have temperatures above 38ºC, so it's essential to have something making cold.
    To answer your other questions, Fan convector's vs radiators: Fan convector's or otherwise known as fan coil units you will have a quick heat up of the building as the system is using warm air to heat so you have quick response times. You also then benefit from being able to use lower flow temps (although you could install fan convector's with a gas boiler and achieve the same) which overall make it more efficient.

    Very good points!
    The disadvantages are that there is no residual heat so once the room reaches temp and the fan coil switches at thermostat there will be no slow heat released like there is from radiators. Some people also prefer radiators as they are often positioned under windows and this helps alleviate draughts from the window (tip if you do go this route make sure your rads or fan coils are positioned under windows). Radiators give out radiant heat which is the same as being sat in front of a fire or being in the sun, this generally can be a more pleasant heat to some people. There's usually less to go wrong on a radiator than a convector, no filters to service and no fan motors to fail or coils to clean. However you will lose cooling and personally I have both, I have a multi split air con system which provides cooling in the summer and in spring/autumn where I don't want to heat the house I use it on heat to heat the room I am occupying. Then when I am heating the whole house on goes the gas boiler I do occasionally use the air con also to boost the temp of certain rooms if its very cold as supplementary heating.
    Using radiators with AC units is a solution that I haven't considered, but that would require a much higher investment at the beginning (Heat pump or boiler + radiators + AC units...), although its probably one of the most comfortable solutions.
    The key to energy savings is to run your flow temp as low as you can so the rads are barely warm. You oversize radiators to achieve this on a heat pump. The other 3rd option is underfloor heating which must use low flow temps by design, these systems are slow to respond as your heating the floor slab which then in turn heats the space. This gives a very even heat distribution in the room you dont get hot or cold spots, the disadvantages are that the system must be left on all the time in winter and its slow to respond so if it becomes hot or in spring summer it takes a while to stabilise if your turning the system off and thus back on if you have a cold snap. But this is regulated with zone controls.
    I also considered underfloor heating, but I think it's too expensive. Besides that, I think that it needs to work together with other heating solution to work properly... But yes, this is the best solution!
  • Considering all points your going to need some form of cooling so I would just go with an air conditioning heat pump system. So you could look at a multi split system where you have several indoor units connected to one outdoor unit, the only thing with these are all indoor units have to be on the same mode either heating or cooling but you can have individual room set points so bedroom at 21 and lounge at 23 etc. There is also a VRV or VRF systems available that connect to one outdoor unit via fan coils and you can have the flexibility to have different operation modes in diff rooms so your lounge could be at 23C cooling and your bedroom at 21C heating - the heat recovered from the lounge cooling is recycled and used to heat the bedroom.

    In Spain and other Europe countries where Air Con is essential they use the air con to heat in winter as standard. So I would personally go for a multi split system or the more expensive VRV or VRF.
    If you found my post helpful, please remember to press the THANKS button! --->
  • Considering all points your going to need some form of cooling so I would just go with an air conditioning heat pump system. So you could look at a multi split system where you have several indoor units connected to one outdoor unit, the only thing with these are all indoor units have to be on the same mode either heating or cooling but you can have individual room set points so bedroom at 21 and lounge at 23 etc. There is also a VRV or VRF systems available that connect to one outdoor unit via fan coils and you can have the flexibility to have different operation modes in diff rooms so your lounge could be at 23C cooling and your bedroom at 21C heating - the heat recovered from the lounge cooling is recycled and used to heat the bedroom.

    I think heating and cooling at the same time will not be needed. At least until now I never had the need for it.
    In Spain and other Europe countries where Air Con is essential they use the air con to heat in winter as standard. So I would personally go for a multi split system or the more expensive VRV or VRF.

    A multi split AC system is one the solutions that I am considering. They are more affordable and very efficient.

    What is the difference between a VRV/VRF system and a multi-split AC system? I have read about it, but can't seem to understand the differences...
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