12 week disregard
Lchehdan
Posts: 2 Newbie
Hello I'm hoping someone can help me. Our 87 year mother who has the beginnings of vascular dementia, had a very bad fall at the beginning of December, she was in hospital for 3 months 2 of those months spent in a hospital 35 miles out of her area. She was assigned a social worker and as she can no longer walk far she was told she had to go into a care home. My sister and I were sent by the SW to check the care homes from Mums area. We found a care home and as Mums assets are lower than 10,000 (not including her home) we asked about having the 12 week disregard. 10 weeks after her entering the care home we finally recieved the paper work and filled it out. in the mean time we have been paying our share of the fees but mums savings are rapidly running out (we have POA) The house has a buyer subject to contract and now we have been told that we have to reimburse the disregard. The local authority have not paid a penny towards Mums fees.
Please can someone tell us if we do have to pay back the disregard. We are completely lost as the paper work is very complicated. Thank you
Please can someone tell us if we do have to pay back the disregard. We are completely lost as the paper work is very complicated. Thank you
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Comments
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What's their justification for you paying the disregard back? When you say you've been paying your share of the fees what are you referring to?
Anyway the rules are quite clear on this, if she has a property then the property isn't considered for the first 12 weeks. You shouldn't be paying anything back, unless of course the LA have reason to believe she should be full cost.0 -
Hello Thank you for answering so quickly.
The LA say that we have to pay back the disregard as Mums home is disregarded as an asset for the first 12 weeks then as soon as it's sold we have to reimburse the disregard. When I say we paid our share I mean that as the care home costs £900 a week they will pay £450 and we have to pay the top up which is £450. Each month the care home has sent us bills for the top up which has been paid out of mums savings.
As soon as contracts are exchanged on the property Mum will become a self funder.
The LA say they want a link to the land registry which we don't understand. They also say that my sister must sign to say she is responsible for the debt if it isnt paid back which she has refused to do.0 -
If there is a top up of care home fees to be paid, my understanding is that it has to be a third party top up - ie it can't be paid out of your mum's savings.
I think you have misunderstood the disregard. During the first 12 weeks your mum should have had a financial assessment, and should have contributed all but about £25 per week of her pension to the local authority towards the care home fees. The local authority then makes up the difference up to the maximum it will pay (which in this case seems to be £450). The disregard means that they don't take account of the value of your mum's house during this period.
If the 12 weeks runs out and your mum doesn't have the money available from the sale of the house, you might be able to arrange a deferred payment agreement which is effectively a loan secured on the house - I think this is what you are actually talking about. In effect, your mum borrows the care home fees from the local authority until the house is sold, and then this is repaid when the money from the house sale is available.
This is just my understanding from what happened with my MIL last year. You should go to the Altzheimer's society forum (Talking Point) - lots of people there are going through the same situation.0 -
The LA say that we have to pay back the disregard as Mums home is disregarded as an asset for the first 12 weeks then as soon as it's sold we have to reimburse the disregard.
They clearly don't understand their own charging rules. The whole point of the disregard is to give the resident some time to settle in and check it's the right place for them. There's nothing about paying back the disregard. Tell them to read their own charging rules, CRAG, paragraphs 7.004 to 7.006. They're wrong basically, don't back down.
The only exception would be if her other assets took her into self funding territory but that clearly isn't the case here. Even in this case she'd still be entitled to a 12 week disregard once the savings depleted.
Has she paid anything to the LA so far? If not are you sure they aren't just requesting her contribution? A 12 week disregard applies to the property only, there's still a charge applied to her income.The LA say they want a link to the land registry which we don't understand.
I assume they're talking about registering a charge against the property for fees. However, as long as her contribution has been made (see above) then there are no fees to recover and therefore no need to register an interest.
As a warning I'd look into this. If they register a charge is could potentially cause issues with the sale of the property.They also say that my sister must sign to say she is responsible for the debt if it isnt paid back which she has refused to do.
Absolutely ridiculous. It is solely your mothers debt. NEVER sign anything such as this.0 -
I assume they're talking about registering a charge against the property for fees. However, as long as her contribution has been made (see above) then there are no fees to recover and therefore no need to register an interest.
But the mother is coming to the end of the 12 week period, so something will have to be put in place to cover the fees between the end of the 12 weeks and when the sale goes through - that's why I think they must be asking for a deferred payment agreement (which is secured on the house). The solicitor dealing with the house sale will be aware of DPAs, and I don't think it would negatively affect the sale although obviously the OP should confirm that with the solicitor.0 -
If there is a top up of care home fees to be paid, my understanding is that it has to be a third party top up - ie it can't be paid out of your mum's savings.
I had this situation with Dad - he was going to be a self-funder once the house was sold so I argued that the third party top-up didn't apply to him - that rule is in place for funded clients.
If the 12 weeks runs out and your mum doesn't have the money available from the sale of the house, you might be able to arrange a deferred payment agreement which is effectively a loan secured on the house
We did this - set up a deferred payment scheme. The council put a charge on the house and that bill was paid as soon as the house was sold.0 -
As a warning I'd look into this. If they register a charge is could potentially cause issues with the sale of the property.
It won't. It's got nothing to do with the sale.
The house is sold at whatever price is agreed. The charge on the house is paid to the council before money is handed over to the seller.0 -
But the mother is coming to the end of the 12 week period, so something will have to be put in place to cover the fees between the end of the 12 weeks and when the sale goes through - that's why I think they must be asking for a deferred payment agreement (which is secured on the house).
Quite possibly. If the council is still funding it past the 12 week period pending the sale of the property then a charge will likely be placed. However I'm not sure that's the case for the OP.It won't. It's got nothing to do with the sale.
The house is sold at whatever price is agreed. The charge on the house is paid to the council before money is handed over to the seller.
I'm fairly sure the charge has to be lifted before the sale can go through. The council will be notified of the pending sale, a written agreement has to be made with the solicitor that they'll pay the council fees from the sale, at which point the charge is lifted.
I may be wrong on this so worth looking into.0 -
Who was it who told your mother she had to go into a care home? is there no chance of her returning back home with a package of care?0
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The house is sold at whatever price is agreed. The charge on the house is paid to the council before money is handed over to the seller.The council will be notified of the pending sale, a written agreement has to be made with the solicitor that they'll pay the council fees from the sale, at which point the charge is lifted.
Yes, that's just what happened with Dad's house.0
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