HMRC debt from 2009 - help please!
Jenniflower34
Posts: 4 Newbie
Background info: had Tax Credits claim in 2008 with ex partner when my son was 2. Split up and he moved out, stopped claim. New claim as a single parent, didn't have a job. Received CTC for several years, no problems.
Got a part time job in 2013, told HMRC and was put on WTC. All fine. Met new partner last year and moved in together in April 2017. Still working part time but he works full time decent wage so stopped Tax credits as not entitled, ended claim.
Received letter saying I owe £400 in overpayments of CTC/WTC from 2009 and have to pay it back.
I NEVER had a letter saying I'd been over paid in 2009 or after, so this is huge shock to me and I'm confused.
Phoned the number on the letter, went through several options and on hold for 20 minutes, to reach a recorded message that said to dispute a Tax Credit overpayment I would need to fill out a form on their website. Did this and printed it off, posted as per instructions.
Heard nothing until a week ago, when another letter cane saying they sent me a notice in 2009, and as 3 months is plenty of time to dispute and I hadn't, I had to pay it back. Then the following day received letter from their debt collection agency saying I owe £200 odd, I'm presuming this means they've sent similar letter to my ex partner as it was a joint claim. I have no contact with him, not my son's father, haven't spoken to him in years. So not sure.
Went to CAB today to ask for advice, they basically said thia happens a lot and I will have to pay it back, but the debt collection agencies are pretty good about setting up payment plan and asked how much I could roughly afford.
Just can't get my head around this? Them telling me this out of the blue, after 8 years with no proof other than them demanding money? Obviously I haven't got any of my paperwork from back then, I don't keep things for more than 5 years. Does anybody?
They won't hear my dispute or even consider it, as 3 months is the time limit. But they've taken 8 years to write to me and I have to just accept it.
I'm adamant I don't owe this money, didn't receive any extra but can't prove it from so long ago.
Got another appointment at CAB next week to discuss with another advisor and have an income and expenditure form to fill out for both me and my partner- but as I said this is from year's ago so nothing to do with him. He shouldn't have to pay anything even if I do.
Any advice or has anyone been in a similar situation?
Got a part time job in 2013, told HMRC and was put on WTC. All fine. Met new partner last year and moved in together in April 2017. Still working part time but he works full time decent wage so stopped Tax credits as not entitled, ended claim.
Received letter saying I owe £400 in overpayments of CTC/WTC from 2009 and have to pay it back.
I NEVER had a letter saying I'd been over paid in 2009 or after, so this is huge shock to me and I'm confused.
Phoned the number on the letter, went through several options and on hold for 20 minutes, to reach a recorded message that said to dispute a Tax Credit overpayment I would need to fill out a form on their website. Did this and printed it off, posted as per instructions.
Heard nothing until a week ago, when another letter cane saying they sent me a notice in 2009, and as 3 months is plenty of time to dispute and I hadn't, I had to pay it back. Then the following day received letter from their debt collection agency saying I owe £200 odd, I'm presuming this means they've sent similar letter to my ex partner as it was a joint claim. I have no contact with him, not my son's father, haven't spoken to him in years. So not sure.
Went to CAB today to ask for advice, they basically said thia happens a lot and I will have to pay it back, but the debt collection agencies are pretty good about setting up payment plan and asked how much I could roughly afford.
Just can't get my head around this? Them telling me this out of the blue, after 8 years with no proof other than them demanding money? Obviously I haven't got any of my paperwork from back then, I don't keep things for more than 5 years. Does anybody?
They won't hear my dispute or even consider it, as 3 months is the time limit. But they've taken 8 years to write to me and I have to just accept it.
I'm adamant I don't owe this money, didn't receive any extra but can't prove it from so long ago.
Got another appointment at CAB next week to discuss with another advisor and have an income and expenditure form to fill out for both me and my partner- but as I said this is from year's ago so nothing to do with him. He shouldn't have to pay anything even if I do.
Any advice or has anyone been in a similar situation?
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Comments
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The legal notification would have been on the final award notice for the 2008/2009 tax year (or 09/10 depending on when you split).
HMRC haven't had the resources to chase overpayments and only now they are using debt collection agencies are they starting to contact people with debts from earlier years.
Unfortunately there is really nothing you can do. If it is a joint debt, you should only have to pay half and as CAB said, you can arrange a payment plan.
You could request copies of your records and award notices for that period, but even if you did the dispute time limit would stop you taking in forward.
IQ0 -
I may be totally wrong as the government seem to be able to have their own rules. But I thought if they couldnt prove contact for a debt older than 6 years old they cant enforce it.....0
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I may be totally wrong as the government seem to be able to have their own rules. But I thought if they couldnt prove contact for a debt older than 6 years old they cant enforce it.....
They can't get a county court judgement if it is statute barred after 6 years but they can use many other methods of recovery including from April 2018 getting DWP to do a direct earnings attachment with your employer.
IQ0 -
I may be totally wrong as the government seem to be able to have their own rules. But I thought if they couldnt prove contact for a debt older than 6 years old they cant enforce it.....
They can't take it to court after 6 years but they don't need to as they have other ways to pursue the debt.0 -
Thanks for replies.
I'm going back to CAB tomorrow have an appointment and they gave me an income abd expenditure form to fill out for our combined finances.
Partner not happy about this as he doesn't want to have to pay towards a 'debt' I didn't even know i had til a couple of months ago, from 8 years ago when I lived with an ex partner.
Considering filling this out just with my details.
Feeling very fed up with it and like someone else has said the HMRC seem to be able to just make up their own rules? After so many years they can just decide oh you owe thia money we don't have any way of proving it but pay us this money or the debt collectors are coming round.
The bloke at CAB told me most people end up paying these debts back and just can't understand how this is allowed to happen when I made sure everything was filled in correctly and above board.0 -
Jenniflower34 wrote: »Thanks for replies.
I'm going back to CAB tomorrow have an appointment and they gave me an income abd expenditure form to fill out for our combined finances.
Partner not happy about this as he doesn't want to have to pay towards a 'debt' I didn't even know i had til a couple of months ago, from 8 years ago when I lived with an ex partner.
Considering filling this out just with my details.
Feeling very fed up with it and like someone else has said the HMRC seem to be able to just make up their own rules? After so many years they can just decide oh you owe thia money we don't have any way of proving it but pay us this money or the debt collectors are coming round.
The bloke at CAB told me most people end up paying these debts back and just can't understand how this is allowed to happen when I made sure everything was filled in correctly and above board.
HMRC would say they haven't just decided you owe this money - they decided that you owed it in 2009 and sent you a notice saying that you owed it but you didn't dispute it or challenge it at the time and they then didn't chase it up.
You should only be paying half of the debt and your ex-partner the other half.
IQ0 -
Icequeen99 wrote: »HMRC would say they haven't just decided you owe this money - they decided that you owed it in 2009 and sent you a notice saying that you owed it but you didn't dispute it or challenge it at the time and they then didn't chase it up.
You should only be paying half of the debt and your ex-partner the other half.
IQ
Yes but clearly I never received such notice in 2009 as I would have asked for clarification or proof then, that's the point isn't it?
Pretty difficult to challenge or dispute something within a set period of time that you know nothing about!0 -
Jenniflower34 wrote: »Yes but clearly I never received such notice in 2009 as I would have asked for clarification or proof then, that's the point isn't it?
Pretty difficult to challenge or dispute something within a set period of time that you know nothing about!
To them if a letter has been issued and not returned by Royal Mail then it is treated as received.0 -
Jenniflower34 wrote: »Yes but clearly I never received such notice in 2009 as I would have asked for clarification or proof then, that's the point isn't it?
Pretty difficult to challenge or dispute something within a set period of time that you know nothing about!
There would have been more than 1 letter. You should have received a final award notice for the year, and then a notice to pay following that (normally about 6 weeks later).
The award notices are hard to understand, in most cases I have dealt with people have missed the overpayment in Section 3.
You could do a request for a copy of the final award notice for that year. If they didn't issue a notice or the overpayment wasn't on the notice then they don't have a legal power to recover it. In 14 years I have never seen that happen.
IQ0 -
I'd tell them that I would pay £200 and they can chase your ex for the other £200 then agree to repay £10 a week surely your new partner could cough up a fiver ?0
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