In loads of debt and unsure where to start

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ElleWoods
ElleWoods Posts: 421 Forumite
Name Dropper Photogenic First Post First Anniversary
edited 21 August 2017 at 7:02PM in Debt-free wannabe
I'm in a lot of debt, I feel really panicky about it and I'm not sure what to do. I had a major wake-up call a few weeks ago when I did my tax return and it made me face up to the fact that my business is hardly bringing in any income. From that I decided to write down all my debts and realised I've got over 11.5k in loans, credit cards and car finance, which made me feel utterly sick to my stomach. I still feel sick now and I've been struggling to sleep for worry. I also suffer from anxiety and compulsive OCD-type behaviours linked to stress, so I need to get this sorted. The only thing I have to show for the debt is my car - the rest has built up over the past 4 or 5 years and went on a combination of business courses/training, holidays, everyday spending and god knows what else. I'm totally ashamed but I take full responsibility for it - the debt is my fault and I need to deal with it so that I can become debt-free as soon as possible and have peace of mind again.

For background, my job contract ended just over a year ago and I struggled to find another job, so I started a business. I don't want to say exactly what I do because it's a bit of a giveaway and I want to stay anon due to the debt, but it's low paid, seasonal and very ad hoc work so the income isn't regular. I'm currently re-evaluating what to do because I'm not sure whether to start a new business (something like cleaning to bring in regular money) or just look for work. I've been job searching because I think I'd be much better off financially with a regular income as an employee. I'm a single mum to a pre-teen so ideally I'm looking for something part time and/or term time only if possible because I'm worried about what I'd do with my child in the school holidays. That said, I'll consider anything and have recently applied for two part time roles and a full time one, so fingers crossed.

I've done a SOA and I'll post that shortly, once I've formulated it for MSE. For now, the details on the individual debts and their interest rates, payments and end dates are as follows:

Tesco CC - £2982.05
0% until June 2020. To pay it off by then I'd need to pay £91 per month. Currently paying £30 per month (just over the min payment).

Barclaycard CC - £3370.54
0% until Oct 2019. To pay it off by then I'd need to pay £135 per month. Currently paying £80 per month (just over the min payment).

Car loan - £2195.64
5.2%. Paying set amount of £122 per month & it'll be paid off in 18 months.

First Direct loan - £2880.90
4.7%. Paying set amount of £131 per month and it'll be paid off in June 2019.

HSBC O/D - £129.72 overdrawn
19.90%. This is an old account which I use as my business account (I'm allowed to do that as a sole trader). Just want to get this paid off ASAP.

First Direct - £3.29 overdrawn.
0% for first £250 overdrawn, then 15.90% from £250-£500 overdrawn. I know it's only a few pounds overdrawn at the moment but when my rent comes out next week I'll be up to my overdraft limit of £500. This happens every month. This is my main current account.

Total: £11,562.14 in debt :(

I'm ready to get this sorted, so I'd love some advice please. Thanks everyone.


Edited to add SOA to this post. I've already started a spending diary and I'm looking into cancelling my TV service and moving to internet only. Any other advice would be more than welcome but this is how things currently stand.

Household Information[/b]
Number of adults in household........... 1
Number of children in household......... 1
Number of cars owned.................... 1

Monthly Income Details

Monthly income after tax................ 50
Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
Benefits................................ 1139.72
Other income............................ 200
Total monthly income.................... 1389.72


Monthly Expense Details

Mortgage................................ 0
Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 122
Rent.................................... 500
Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
Council tax............................. 11
Electricity............................. 45
Gas..................................... 25.09
Oil..................................... 0
Water rates............................. 36.4
Telephone (land line)................... 0
Mobile phone............................ 7.5
TV Licence.............................. 12.12
Satellite/Cable TV...................... 42
Internet Services....................... 0
Groceries etc. ......................... 250
Clothing................................ 20
Petrol/diesel........................... 25
Road tax................................ 20
Car Insurance........................... 26.79
Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 15
Car parking............................. 5
Other travel............................ 0
Childcare/nursery....................... 0
Other child related expenses............ 80
Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 35
Pet insurance/vet bills................. 6
Buildings insurance..................... 0
Contents insurance...................... 5.5
Life assurance ......................... 0
Other insurance......................... 0
Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 21
Haircuts................................ 15
Entertainment........................... 20
Holiday................................. 0
Emergency fund.......................... 0
Total monthly expenses.................. 1345.4



Assets

Cash.................................... 0
House value (Gross)..................... 0
Shares and bonds........................ 0
Car(s).................................. 3900
Other assets............................ 0
Total Assets............................ 3900



Secured & HP Debts

Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
Mortgage...................... 0........(0)........0
Hire Purchase (HP) debt ...... 2195.64..(122)......5.2
Total secured & HP debts...... 2195.64...-.........-


Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
First Direct Loan..............2880.9....131.......4.7
Tesco Credit Card..............2982.05...30........0
Barclaycard....................3370.54...80........0
HSBC O/D.......................129.72....0.........19.9
First Direct O/D...............3.29......0.........0
Total unsecured debts..........9366.5....241.......-



Monthly Budget Summary

Total monthly income.................... 1,389.72
Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,345.4
Available for debt repayments........... 44.32
Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 241
Amount short for making debt repayments. -196.68


Personal Balance Sheet Summary
Total assets (things you own)........... 3,900
Total HP & Secured debt................. -2,195.64
Total Unsecured debt.................... -9,366.5
Net Assets.............................. -7,662.14


Created using the SOA calculator at https://www.stoozing.com.
Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using other browser.
«134

Comments

  • ElleWoods
    ElleWoods Posts: 421 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Post First Anniversary
    edited 21 August 2017 at 7:00PM
    Options
    SOA moved to post 1.
  • chelseablue
    chelseablue Posts: 3,303 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    edited 21 August 2017 at 5:42PM
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    ElleWoods wrote: »
    Here's my SOA. I've already started a spending diary and I'm looking into cancelling my TV service and moving to internet only. Any other advice would be more than welcome but this is how things currently stand.

    Household Information[/b]
    Number of adults in household........... 1
    Number of children in household......... 1
    Number of cars owned.................... 1

    Monthly Income Details

    Monthly income after tax................ 50 You only earn £50 a month? Sorry hope I'm not coming across as blunt. Could you get an employed job and do the self employed bit as extra?
    Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
    Benefits................................ 1139.72
    Other income............................ 200 What is this? I'm guessing child maintenance?
    Total monthly income.................... 1389.72[/b]

    Monthly Expense Details

    Mortgage................................ 0
    Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 122 For your car?
    Rent.................................... 500
    Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
    Council tax............................. 11
    Electricity............................. 45
    Gas..................................... 25.09
    Oil..................................... 0
    Water rates............................. 36.4
    Telephone (land line)................... 0
    Mobile phone............................ 7.5
    TV Licence.............................. 12.12
    Satellite/Cable TV...................... 42 Could you get rid of this?
    Internet Services....................... 0
    Groceries etc. ......................... 250 A lot for 1 adult and 1 child. I spend less than this on 2 adults and 1 child. Where do you shop?
    Clothing................................ 20
    Petrol/diesel........................... 25
    Road tax................................ 20
    Car Insurance........................... 26.79
    Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 15
    Car parking............................. 5
    Other travel............................ 0
    Childcare/nursery....................... 0
    Other child related expenses............ 80 What is this for?
    Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 35
    Pet insurance/vet bills................. 6
    Buildings insurance..................... 0
    Contents insurance...................... 5.5
    Life assurance ......................... 0
    Other insurance......................... 0
    Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 21
    Haircuts................................ 15
    Entertainment........................... 20
    Holiday................................. 0
    Emergency fund.......................... 0
    Total monthly expenses.................. 1345.4



    Assets

    Cash.................................... 0
    House value (Gross)..................... 0
    Shares and bonds........................ 0
    Car(s).................................. 3900
    Other assets............................ 0
    Total Assets............................ 3900



    Secured & HP Debts

    Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
    Mortgage...................... 0........(0)........0
    Hire Purchase (HP) debt ...... 2195.64..(122)......5.2
    Total secured & HP debts...... 2195.64...-.........-


    Unsecured Debts
    Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
    First Direct Loan..............2880.9....131.......4.7
    Tesco Credit Card..............2982.05...30........0
    Barclaycard....................3370.54...80........0
    HSBC O/D.......................129.72....0.........19.9
    First Direct O/D...............3.29......0.........0
    Total unsecured debts..........9366.5....241.......-



    Monthly Budget Summary

    Total monthly income.................... 1,389.72
    Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,345.4
    Available for debt repayments........... 44.32
    Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 241
    Amount short for making debt repayments. -196.68


    Personal Balance Sheet Summary
    Total assets (things you own)........... 3,900
    Total HP & Secured debt................. -2,195.64
    Total Unsecured debt.................... -9,366.5
    Net Assets.............................. -7,662.14


    Created using the SOA calculator at https://www.stoozing.com.
    Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using other browser.

    Welcome aboard, you've come to the right place. Comments above in red.
  • ElleWoods
    ElleWoods Posts: 421 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Post First Anniversary
    edited 21 August 2017 at 7:04PM
    Options
    Thanks Chelseablue,
    I'm not sure how to quote your post and include my post that you quoted within it, sorry! Instead I've put my SOA below and answered your questions there, in red. A lot of your queries were covered off in my first post but I know that was pretty long and waffly, so totally understand readers missing certain points. Hopefully the info below makes sense.

    Household Information[/b]
    Number of adults in household........... 1
    Number of children in household......... 1
    Number of cars owned.................... 1

    Monthly Income Details

    Monthly income after tax................ 50 Not blunt at all! Yes, it averages £50 per month - I realised this sad fact after doing my tax return for the last financial year. As I mentioned in my first post I'm now job searching.
    Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
    Benefits................................ 1139.72
    Other income............................ 200 Yes you're right, it's child maintenance
    Total monthly income.................... 1389.72[/b]

    Monthly Expense Details

    Mortgage................................ 0
    Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 122 Yes, for my car payments. Full details of all my various payments are in my first post.
    Rent.................................... 500
    Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
    Council tax............................. 11
    Electricity............................. 45
    Gas..................................... 25.09
    Oil..................................... 0
    Water rates............................. 36.4
    Telephone (land line)................... 0
    Mobile phone............................ 7.5
    TV Licence.............................. 12.12
    Satellite/Cable TV...................... 42 As mentioned in my initial post I'm looking into getting rid of this and just having broadband.
    Internet Services....................... 0
    Groceries etc. ......................... 250 For 1 adult, 1 child & 1 cat (don't forget the cat!), plus includes all cleaning stuff etc. Tend to shop in a mixture of Morrisons & Asda, although I've gone to Aldi for the last couple of weeks and it's much cheaper so this amount will reduce.
    Clothing................................ 20
    Petrol/diesel........................... 25
    Road tax................................ 20
    Car Insurance........................... 26.79
    Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 15
    Car parking............................. 5
    Other travel............................ 0
    Childcare/nursery....................... 0
    Other child related expenses............ 80 Bus fares to/from school and lunch money for my child
    Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 35
    Pet insurance/vet bills................. 6
    Buildings insurance..................... 0
    Contents insurance...................... 5.5
    Life assurance ......................... 0
    Other insurance......................... 0
    Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 21
    Haircuts................................ 15
    Entertainment........................... 20
    Holiday................................. 0
    Emergency fund.......................... 0
    Total monthly expenses.................. 1345.4



    Assets

    Cash.................................... 0
    House value (Gross)..................... 0
    Shares and bonds........................ 0
    Car(s).................................. 3900
    Other assets............................ 0
    Total Assets............................ 3900



    Secured & HP Debts

    Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
    Mortgage...................... 0........(0)........0
    Hire Purchase (HP) debt ...... 2195.64..(122)......5.2
    Total secured & HP debts...... 2195.64...-.........-


    Unsecured Debts
    Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
    First Direct Loan..............2880.9....131.......4.7
    Tesco Credit Card..............2982.05...30........0
    Barclaycard....................3370.54...80........0
    HSBC O/D.......................129.72....0.........19.9
    First Direct O/D...............3.29......0.........0
    Total unsecured debts..........9366.5....241.......-



    Monthly Budget Summary

    Total monthly income.................... 1,389.72
    Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,345.4
    Available for debt repayments........... 44.32
    Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 241
    Amount short for making debt repayments. -196.68


    Personal Balance Sheet Summary
    Total assets (things you own)........... 3,900
    Total HP & Secured debt................. -2,195.64
    Total Unsecured debt.................... -9,366.5
    Net Assets.............................. -7,662.14
  • mrsmulac
    mrsmulac Posts: 27 Forumite
    Options
    I can't help you out in great detail sorry but just to let you know that it is possible to get yourself out of the hole.

    I had a similar level of debt and cleared it in 2014. You've done the right thing by facing up to it - that's the only way to start to fight your way out! I wish you lots of luck!

    There are more knowledgable people than me here but I cleared my debt through a DMP with Stepchange I don't know if this would be a good move for you or not but maybe something to look into?

    You've probably already thought of this but little things like selling things online/ carbooting can add up more quickly than you'd think!

    Best of luck.
  • someone's_Mum
    Options
    Get Freeview....or if you are with Virgin haggle them. I was paying £60 a month for TV mix, 100mb Internet, line rental with evening and weekend calls and TIVO box. I rang to cancel as was approaching end of contract and after a few calls with retentions got 2 free months then £28 for above package for remaining 10 months.

    Regards to shopping....2 adults, 1 7 yr old and 3 cats= £60 a week for all shopping. Combination of savvy shopping at Aldi, Lidl and B+M...last one mainly for cat food.

    Well done on getting help. We are on DMP with Stepchange and biggest relief of our lives....still £34k to pay off but hey ho will get there.
  • enthusiasticsaver
    enthusiasticsaver Posts: 15,594 Ambassador
    First Anniversary First Post Name Dropper I've been Money Tipped!
    Options
    Your soa has very little to trim beyond the cable tv and maybe the groceries figure. The car takes a big chunk of your income with the car payment and the tax, insurance, maintenance but as you only use £25 fuel you presumably do not use it much. Is giving that up an option?

    If you can somehow manage to increase your income by £180-£200per month to stop the shortfall this would mean you could continue with your current payments for the next 18 months then use the car payment to snowball on to the credit cards and then in June 19 after the First Direct loan is repaid direct that payment to the credit cards also. They have reasonably long interest free deals and I reckon the debt would be cleared in 3 years if you manage to keep to the payments and schedules. Ideally though you would increase income to do this sooner if you could get a job.
    I’m a Forum Ambassador and I support the Forum Team on the Debt free Wannabe, Budgeting and Banking and Savings and Investment boards. If you need any help on these boards, do let me know. Please note that Ambassadors are not moderators. Any posts you spot in breach of the Forum Rules should be reported via the report button, or by emailing forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. All views are my own and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.
  • macman
    macman Posts: 53,098 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
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    Sorry to point out the obvious, but with an income of £50pm, you cannot afford to spend £42 on subscription TV! Get rid of that and you effectively double your income.
    Your C Tax of £11 pm seems very low.
    No free lunch, and no free laptop ;)
  • chelseablue
    chelseablue Posts: 3,303 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
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    You're paying for a car and also bus fare for your child to get to school, could you drop them off instead?
  • EssexHebridean
    EssexHebridean Posts: 21,372 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary Photogenic First Post
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    Hi Elle - well done on your LBM and facing up to things.

    It has to be said that you don't sound like an ideal candidate to be solely self employed right now - but perhaps a combination of a part time job for regular income and really throwing yourself into building up the self employed business might work? I think that first though you have to take a very objective look at your business - imagine that it was a friend you were talking to, and it was their business - is it truly sustainable? Would you be advising them to keep going with it or just accept that while it may have been a good idea on paper it's not working in reality? Try to take the emotion out of it and see if that helps to clarify things.

    Comments in red as usual on the below:
    ElleWoods wrote: »

    I've done a SOA and I'll post that shortly, once I've formulated it for MSE. For now, the details on the individual debts and their interest rates, payments and end dates are as follows:

    Tesco CC - £2982.05
    0% until June 2020. To pay it off by then I'd need to pay £91 per month. Currently paying £30 per month (just over the min payment). You've done a good thing setting the DD for a standard amount like that as it will have more impact over time. As this debt is currently on 0% leave things ticking over as they are for now.

    Barclaycard CC - £3370.54
    0% until Oct 2019. To pay it off by then I'd need to pay £135 per month. Currently paying £80 per month (just over the min payment). You've done a good thing setting the DD for a standard amount like that as it will have more impact over time. As this debt is currently on 0% leave things ticking over as they are for now. - as other debts are shifted this is higher priority to throw extra at than the one above.

    Car loan - £2195.64
    5.2%. Paying set amount of £122 per month & it'll be paid off in 18 months. For the time being I would just leave this one alone and let it run. However this is your first priority for throwing extra at once it is available

    First Direct loan - £2880.90
    4.7%. Paying set amount of £131 per month and it'll be paid off in June 2019. For the time being I would just leave this one alone and let it run.

    HSBC O/D - £129.72 overdrawn
    19.90%. This is an old account which I use as my business account (I'm allowed to do that as a sole trader). Just want to get this paid off ASAP. Yep - priority number 1.
    Overdrafts are nasty debt as they can be withdrawn with no notice so there is no stability there as there is with a loan, for example, so long as payments are met


    First Direct - £3.29 overdrawn.
    0% for first £250 overdrawn, then 15.90% from £250-£500 overdrawn. I know it's only a few pounds overdrawn at the moment but when my rent comes out next week I'll be up to my overdraft limit of £500. This happens every month. This is my main current account. Second thing to tackle, but this should gradually sort itself once you're living within your means

    Total: £11,562.14 in debt :(

    I'm ready to get this sorted, so I'd love some advice please. Thanks everyone.


    Edited to add SOA to this post. I've already started a spending diary well doneand I'm looking into cancelling my TV service and moving to internet only Yep - good plan. Any other advice would be more than welcome but this is how things currently stand.

    Household Information[/b]
    Number of adults in household........... 1
    Number of children in household......... 1
    Number of cars owned.................... 1

    Monthly Income Details

    Monthly income after tax................ 50 Thing about anything you can do to boost this in the short term - take a look at the "boost your income" board for a start.
    Partners monthly income after tax....... 0
    Benefits................................ 1139.72
    Other income............................ 200
    Total monthly income.................... 1389.72


    Monthly Expense Details

    Mortgage................................ 0
    Secured/HP loan repayments.............. 122
    Rent.................................... 500
    Management charge (leasehold property).. 0
    Council tax............................. 11
    Electricity............................. 45 Look to reduce this - I assume your heating is by Gas? Go round the house turning off EVERYTHING you possibly can for a start, then invoke some new rules - no lights to be left on in rooms not being used, no TV;s to be left on standby, and use a timer for showers (assuming you have an electric shower) or choose a song and agree with your child that the duration of that song is the length of showers,
    other than when hair washing.

    Gas..................................... 25.09
    Oil..................................... 0
    Water rates............................. 36.4
    Telephone (land line)................... 0
    Mobile phone............................ 7.5
    TV Licence.............................. 12.12
    Satellite/Cable TV...................... 42 Yes, if you can get rid of this that will help
    Internet Services....................... 0
    Groceries etc. ......................... 250 You can definitely reduce this
    Clothing................................ 20 Absolutely esse4ntials only for the time being -
    and shop around for things like school uniform to see where it can be got cheapest

    Petrol/diesel........................... 25
    Road tax................................ 20 Do you actually pay this monthly? If so as soon as possible look to switching to 6 monthly as they charge a premium for a monthly DD
    Car Insurance........................... 26.79
    Car maintenance (including MOT)......... 15 No cash assets showing -
    where do you save this? Does it actually cover your annual servings and MOT costs,
    plus things like tyres, wiper blades etc?

    Car parking............................. 5 Can you find street parking at no cost to get rid of this?
    Other travel............................ 0
    Childcare/nursery....................... 0
    Other child related expenses............ 80 Agree with whoever said about ditching the bus fares if either walking or car will be cheaper for now - maybe a compromise of one way by car and the other on the bus as that will help with independence/self reliance etc
    Medical (prescriptions, dentist etc).... 35 Can this be reduced at all? Pre paid certificate for prescriptions perhaps?
    Pet insurance/vet bills................. 6
    Buildings insurance..................... 0
    Contents insurance...................... 5.5
    Life assurance ......................... 0
    Other insurance......................... 0
    Presents (birthday, christmas etc)...... 21 Sorry but I think you need to cut this back until your income allows it.
    Haircuts................................ 15
    Entertainment........................... 20
    Holiday................................. 0
    Emergency fund.......................... 0
    Total monthly expenses.................. 1345.4



    Assets

    Cash.................................... 0
    House value (Gross)..................... 0
    Shares and bonds........................ 0
    Car(s).................................. 3900
    Other assets............................ 0
    Total Assets............................ 3900



    Secured & HP Debts

    Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
    Mortgage...................... 0........(0)........0
    Hire Purchase (HP) debt ...... 2195.64..(122)......5.2
    Total secured & HP debts...... 2195.64...-.........-


    Unsecured Debts
    Description....................Debt......Monthly...APR
    First Direct Loan..............2880.9....131.......4.7
    Tesco Credit Card..............2982.05...30........0
    Barclaycard....................3370.54...80........0
    HSBC O/D.......................129.72....0.........19.9
    First Direct O/D...............3.29......0.........0
    Total unsecured debts..........9366.5....241.......-



    Monthly Budget Summary

    Total monthly income.................... 1,389.72
    Expenses (including HP & secured debts). 1,345.4
    Available for debt repayments........... 44.32
    Monthly UNsecured debt repayments....... 241
    Amount short for making debt repayments. -196.68


    Personal Balance Sheet Summary
    Total assets (things you own)........... 3,900
    Total HP & Secured debt................. -2,195.64
    Total Unsecured debt.................... -9,366.5
    Net Assets.............................. -7,662.14


    Created using the SOA calculator at https://www.stoozing.com.
    Reproduced on Moneysavingexpert with permission, using other browser.

    On things like phone/broadband look for the absolute best deal you can currently get, and diarise to shop around a month before that deal ends to see what you can switch to. Similarly with energy suppliers - make sure you're on the best deal but also look to cut use where you can.

    You can boost your income short term with things like surveys which will help along with the savings you can identify from the SOA to plug the gaps until you can get proper employment sorted.
    🎉 MORTGAGE FREE (First time!) 30/09/2016 🎉 And now we go again…New mortgage taken 01/09/23 🏡
    Balance as at 01/09/23 = £115,000.00
    Balance as at 31/12/23 = £112,000.00
    SOA CALCULATOR (for DFW newbies): SOA Calculator
    she/her
  • ElleWoods
    ElleWoods Posts: 421 Forumite
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Post First Anniversary
    Options
    mrsmulac wrote: »
    I can't help you out in great detail sorry but just to let you know that it is possible to get yourself out of the hole.

    I had a similar level of debt and cleared it in 2014. You've done the right thing by facing up to it - that's the only way to start to fight your way out! I wish you lots of luck!

    There are more knowledgable people than me here but I cleared my debt through a DMP with Stepchange I don't know if this would be a good move for you or not but maybe something to look into?

    You've probably already thought of this but little things like selling things online/ carbooting can add up more quickly than you'd think!

    Best of luck.

    Thanks Mrsmulac, I'll look into a DMP because I'm not sure what that actually involves, however I'm hoping that once I get a job it'll get things back on an even keel so I can just plod on with the regular repayments until I'm debt-free.

    Well done on clearing your debt - there's hope for me yet!
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