Points for Aids for PIP
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50Twuncle
Posts: 10,763 Forumite
I have come up with a list of equipment that I use from day to day to help me
I understand that points are given for each (accepted) aid ?
Perching stool for washing / Shower Seat
Shoe horn for getting shoes on
Shoes with Velcro fastenings – can’t handle shoelaces
Washbasin grab for getting on/off toilet
Chair for sitting on for dressing
Computer/laptop/tablet/phone for communications
Wife to fill in gaps in communications
Wheelchair
Mobility Scooter
Rubber shower / bath mat – I did fall once without it !
Pill reminder box
Leg Brace – causes sores and lesions
How many of them are valid and will be worth including on the form .... ?
I understand that points are given for each (accepted) aid ?
Perching stool for washing / Shower Seat
Shoe horn for getting shoes on
Shoes with Velcro fastenings – can’t handle shoelaces
Washbasin grab for getting on/off toilet
Chair for sitting on for dressing
Computer/laptop/tablet/phone for communications
Wife to fill in gaps in communications
Wheelchair
Mobility Scooter
Rubber shower / bath mat – I did fall once without it !
Pill reminder box
Leg Brace – causes sores and lesions
How many of them are valid and will be worth including on the form .... ?
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Comments
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I have come up with a list of equipment that I use from day to day to help me
I understand that points are given for each (accepted) aid ?
Perching stool for washing / Shower Seat
Shoe horn for getting shoes on
Shoes with Velcro fastenings – can’t handle shoelaces
Washbasin grab for getting on/off toilet
Chair for sitting on for dressing
Computer/laptop/tablet/phone for communications
Wife to fill in gaps in communications
Wheelchair
Mobility Scooter
Rubber shower / bath mat – I did fall once without it !
Pill reminder box
Leg Brace – causes sores and lesions
How many of them are valid and will be worth including on the form .... ?
Include everything on your form you personally think is relevant , the DWP are not mind readers.Master Apothecary Faranell replied, “I assure you, overseer, the Royal Apothecary Society dearly wishes to make up for the tragic misguidance which ended so many lives. We will cause you no trouble. We seek only to continue our research in peace".0 -
I have come up with a list of equipment that I use from day to day to help me
I understand that points are given for each (accepted) aid ?
Perching stool for washing / Shower Seat
Shoe horn for getting shoes on
Shoes with Velcro fastenings – can’t handle shoelaces
Washbasin grab for getting on/off toilet
Chair for sitting on for dressing
Computer/laptop/tablet/phone for communications
Wife to fill in gaps in communications
Wheelchair
Mobility Scooter
Rubber shower / bath mat – I did fall once without it !
Pill reminder box
Leg Brace – causes sores and lesions
How many of them are valid and will be worth including on the form .... ?
You don't get points for aids per se, you get points for meeting the descriptors under each activity
Personal Independence Payment (PIP) – table of activities, descriptors and points
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf
So, for example, for the 'Washing and bathing' activity, you can receive 2 points under 'Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to wash or bathe'. Therefore when you are completing PIP2 and you get to question 6a 'Do you use an aid or appliance to wash and bathe yourself, including using a bath or shower?', you tick the box marked 'Yes', and then under 'Extra information' you tell 'em that you have to use a "Perching stool for washing / Shower Seat".
(And even a "Rubber shower / bath mat" - I don't whether it counts, but I put it down anyway.)
Etc.
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Some useful information about aids:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/547146/pip-assessment-guide.pdf
page 82 onwards0 -
I have come up with a list of equipment that I use from day to day to help me
I understand that points are given for each (accepted) aid ?
Daily Living
1) Perching stool for washing / Shower Seat
Yes - this should count as an aid for washing (2 points)
2) Shoe horn for getting shoes on
Yes - a long handed shoe horn should count as a dressing aid (2 points)
3) Shoes with Velcro fastenings – can’t handle shoelaces
Possibly - but points already scored for this activity in 2 above
4) Washbasin grab for getting on/off toilet
Possibly - the need to use a grab rail for safety would definitely gain 2 points
5) Chair for sitting on for dressing
No - recent caselaw has said a seat is not an aid for this.
6) Computer/laptop/tablet/phone for communications
Depends why. With all this it is important to explain why your conditions necessitate the use of all these aids.
7) Wife to fill in gaps in communications
Possibly indicates difficulties with social engagement?
Needing prompting would be 2 points.
8) Pill reminder box
Yes - but only scores 1 point
9) Rubber shower / bath mat – I did fall once without it !
Already covered by 1 above in terms of points - but no harm listing on form.
Mobility
Leg Brace
Wheelchair
Mobility Scooter
The descriptors for mobility look at walking and refer to "aided or unaided".
"This activity considers a claimant’s physical ability to move around without severe discomfort, such as breathlessness, pain or fatigue.
This includes the ability to stand and then move up to 20 metres, up to 50 metres, up to 200 metres and over 200 metres. "
The use of a wheelchair / scooter is not an aid for walking (unlike say a stick / frame / crutches / etc). If you need an aid such as a walking stick check if descriptor D applies - Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres.
Note that "Individuals who require a wheelchair or similar device to move a distance should not be considered able to stand and move that distance."
The above would be my view.
But do explain fully on the form why the need for these aids (or assistance) is required.
Hope this helps.
As pmlinyloo said the PIP assessment guide is helpful on this, as is Benefits & Work.Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.0 -
pmlindyloo wrote: »Some useful information about aids:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/547146/pip-assessment-guide.pdf
page 82 onwards
3.2.20 ...... For the purpose of the PIP assessment, aids and appliances may be
everyday objects but whether they are in any particular case
depends on how the claimant uses the object compared to how (if at
all) it might typically be used by someone with no relevant
impairment. Where the object would usually or normally be used by
someone without any limitation in carrying out the relevant activity, it
is unlikely to be an aid or appliance, for example sitting on a bed
whilst getting dressed or using a pan with a rubber-
grip handle when cooking. In instances where claimants make use of such items as a
result of a disability, they should be scored as being able to
complete the activity unaided.
I cannot get dressed safely without sitting on a chair - but because a NORMAL can also USE a chair - it is assumed that I have no problems getting dressed - this is extremely unfair and just plain WRONG...
This implies that we are better off - not even mentioning things that "NORMALS" might also use - or be assumed that we can manage it unaided !0 -
Alice_Holt wrote: »The descriptors for mobility look at walking and refer to "aided or unaided".
"This activity considers a claimant’s physical ability to move around without severe discomfort, such as breathlessness, pain or fatigue.
This includes the ability to stand and then move up to 20 metres, up to 50 metres, up to 200 metres and over 200 metres. "
The use of a wheelchair / scooter is not an aid for walking (unlike say a stick / frame / crutches / etc). If you need an aid such as a walking stick check if descriptor D applies - Can stand and then move using an aid or appliance more than 20 metres but no more than 50 metres.
Note that "Individuals who require a wheelchair or similar device to move a distance should not be considered able to stand and move that distance."
The above would be my view.
But do explain fully on the form why the need for these aids (or assistance) is required.
Hope this helps.
As pmlinyloo said the PIP assessment guide is helpful on this, as is Benefits & Work.
By "Aided and unaided" - do they assess the distance that you can walk - using the aid (spliint in my case) or not using the aid - because most people could walk at least 20 metres using some form of aid (I am thinking of "robotised assistance".....
Do you think that it is worth joining B&W as a member and getting direct advice from them ?
People keep on telling me that they only offer the same help as the CAB - but I am unsure ....0 -
Do you think that it is worth joining B&W as a member and getting direct advice from them ?
People keep on telling me that they only offer the same help as the CAB - but I am unsure ....
In my view, both can be very helpful. They offer different types of help.
B&W have excellent self-help guides, extremely thorough, with full explanations of how to complete the forms and appeal DWP decisions.
For those needing face-to-face advice, someone to explain and help write the form for them, and a possible referral to a caseworker due to their vulnerabilities the CAB would be the route to go.Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.0 -
This is an extremely important question for myself (and others in a similar position) :
I have asked DWP for answers but they manage to skirt around without offering me a difinitive answer......
By "Aided and Unaided" - do they assess the distance that you can walk - using the aid (spliint in my case) or not using the aid - because most people could walk at least 20 metres using some form of aid (I am thinking of "robotised assistance".....
If they are assessing me using my aid, which, incidentally does not help me as much as it used to - I am "stuffed" - because I can (eventually) walk at least 200 yard s when using it - but regret it within a few hours (because weals form on my skin)0 -
Helpfully B & W provide this in their guide -
" The mobility descriptors in plain English
We found these descriptors so confusing that we’ve rewritten them in the hope it will help you understand them more clearly
a. If you can walk more than 200 metres either with: no help; or with an aid or appliance; or with supervision, prompting or assistance from another person you get 0 points.
b. If you can walk (more than 50 metres and) up to 200 metres either with: no help; or with an aid or appliance; or with supervision, prompting or assistance from another person you get 4 points .
c. If you can walk (more than 20 metres and) up to 50 metres without needing any aid or appliance and without help of any sort from another person you get 8 points.
d. If you can walk (more than 20 metres and) up to 50 metres using an aid or appliance but without any help from another person you get 10 points.
e. If you can walk move (more than 1 metre and) up to 20 metres either with: no help; or with an aid or appliance; or with supervision, prompting or assistance from another person you get 12 points.
f. If you can’t stand at all or you can’t move more than 1 metre either with: no help; or with an aid or appliance; or with supervision, prompting or assistance from another person you get 12 points."
I don't think you are "stuffed" as even using your aid it sounds as if you cannot cover this distance -
a) in a reasonable time scale;
b) without stopping? (I'm alluding to your use of the word "eventually");
c) safely (in a manner unlikely to cause harm to the claimant either during or after completion of the activity);
d) repeatedly; and
e) to an acceptable standard.
All these fall within the reliably criteria (which is covered clearly in the B & W guide).
Are you in the process of completing a PIP form?
Or about to have an assessment?
If so, I suggest you very clearly and fully explain the difficulties, pain, time, distance, number of stops required, ability to repeat this activity, the after effects, I really don't think you need to scrutinise the descriptors in an attempt to determine their precise meaning - that's the task of Upper Tribunal judges. You need to give a full and very clear explanation of your conditions, it's impact on your ability to walk, how you walk, etc
It does help, of course, to be aware of the descriptors (the B & W explanations together with pages 132 of the PIP assessment guide 2016 should give you sufficient information), and importantly the reliability criteria.Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.0 -
Alice_Holt wrote: »Helpfully B & W provide this in their guide -
Are you in the process of completing a PIP form?
Or about to have an assessment?
If so, I suggest you very clearly and fully explain the difficulties, pain, time, distance, number of stops required, ability to repeat this activity, the after effects, I really don't think you need to scrutinise the descriptors in an attempt to determine their precise meaning - that's the task of Upper Tribunal judges. You need to give a full and very clear explanation of your conditions, it's impact on your ability to walk, how you walk, etc
It does help, of course, to be aware of the descriptors (the B & W explanations together with pages 132 of the PIP assessment guide 2016 should give you sufficient information), and importantly the reliability criteria.
Neither - I am considering applying for a transfer from DLA (which I have been claiming for 12 years - just middle care component) because my mobility has deteriorated considerably in the intervening years.....
But am unsure whether this is the right thing to do ?
Without any aid - I tend to "freeze" for some considerable time (especially indoors) before I am able to even start moving - but once moving, I can probably manage 50 metres in fairly quick time (but possibly unsafely - I tend to fall regularly)0
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