Hamilton/HFC/Endeavour.
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It wouldn't be the case that you actually paid the commission blatently (although they would claw it back somehow!!) but it was that the sale from Click of the loan generated a commission. Its usually 5% of the loan OR could be 5% of the loan and PPI sale if the sale WAS made by Click. This is where HFC are saying that a commission was made for the PPI and that Click received it.....now they most probably did receive a commission BUT it could be that the commission was just on the loan and HFC sold the PPI (which they did as you say) and the commission amount is crucial perhaps to your complaint.Checking on the application form there is a part before we sign which asks if we are required to pay any fee in support of this application and there is a manual cross for no.
Going through SAR stuff underwriters paperwork there is a list of figures and Brokers commission of a thousand odd.
Even though I cannot recall on this being discussed, but can recall on being told we don't pay anything.
The HFC address is also Endeavours address now and that is the address Endeavour wrote back with.
Yet when we taken out the loan with Endeavour it was the address in Bracknel.
And the address on the Click Application form is:
Vicotoria House, 23-27 South Street, Farnham, Surrey, GU9 7QU
Click Finance Ltd (04239176) Registered in England Bridge House, South Street, Farnham, Surrey, GU9 7RS licenced Credit Brokers.
different postal code on the registered adddress.
On the HFC paperwork this is a Customer services Speak with form, we have the name of the one who spoke to us (and i am aware she is still working for them during a research i have done) she has her profile as HFC Underwriter.
This is the copy of the form that both me and hubby have one each, where they asked questions and also states on the form is to contact them if they can help us anyway for additional funds.
This is HFC Bank Ltd/UK/Household.
The first address you wrote for Hamilton is the address we have on the policy details.
My loan was 17000 and going through FIrstplus SAR the commission the broker received was £850 which was 5% of the loan and nothing for the sale of the PPI as it was Firstplus that actually made the sale of the PPI although they are saying to people that brokers sold it.
How much was your commission exactly and how much was the loan and PPI amounts... perhaps we could work out exactly what commission was paid?0 -
Thank you Marshallka I shall take a nose at that.
I am with you and totally agree from word to word what you said.
Just going over the dates again now, the application was done over the telephone on the 16 July 2004.
Then HFC/UK Household contacted us to speak to both myself and hubby separately as shown on the HFC paperwork 26th July.
The Endeavour loan agreement was dated 30 July, but the loan was already paid into our account by then, they asked us to quickly send the signed agreement back, but unlike yourself (me being so dim):o did not question about the extra months, but agree with what you said though, the ppi was added and this was changed from 240 to 300 months so the repayments would not seem as high either.The one and only "Dizzy Di"
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marshallka wrote: »It wouldn't be the case that you actually paid the commission blatently (although they would claw it back somehow!!) but it was that the sale from Click of the loan generated a commission. Its usually 5% of the loan OR could be 5% of the loan and PPI sale if the sale WAS made by Click. This is where HFC are saying that a commission was made for the PPI and that Click received it.....now they most probably did receive a commission BUT it could be that the commission was just on the loan and HFC sold the PPI (which they did as you say) and the commission amount is crucial perhaps to your complaint.
My loan was 17000 and going through FIrstplus SAR the commission the broker received was £850 which was 5% of the loan and nothing for the sale of the PPI as it was Firstplus that actually made the sale of the PPI although they are saying to people that brokers sold it.
How much was your commission exactly and how much was the loan and PPI amounts... perhaps we could work out exactly what commission was paid?
I shall get the paperwork back out on this one and have to double check, I recall on commission paid to broker and interest something like that.The one and only "Dizzy Di"0 -
Di, this explains wholly owned subsidiaries and how they are seperate legal entities (yeah right!!) and it also explains their get out clauses....
http://www.suetheairlines.org/07_defendants.htm
And this one says
Corporate Veil: The principle of separation of legal identity between different limited companies is a universal legal assumption regarded as fundamental by the commercial world. _
Thus the parent company of a wholly-owned subsidiary is, on the face of it, no more responsible, legally, for the unlawful behaviour of the subsidiary, than eg would be a member of the public for the negligence of a large public company, in which he or she owns a single share. Save in exceptional circumstances (eg where it can be shown that the company is a “sham” or the “agent” of the shareholder¹), the parent company is regarded simply as a shareholder.
http://www.labournet.net/images/cape/campanal.htm
And it says here
Separate legal personality and ignorance of the
infringement do not prevent the attribution of liability
to parent companies where the decisive influence
test is met. It would be extremely difficult for a
parent company to evade liabilities for the actions of
its wholly-owned subsidiaries. In the case of
partially-owned subsidiaries and joint ventures,
there is no presumption that parents will have
decisive influence. The flow diagram below gives an
overview of the relevant considerations.
Although the above is about another type of thing and I don't know how if this is "in general".... just looked up Cartel Activity????
http://www.ffw.com/pdf/banana-cartel.pdf0 -
marshallka wrote: »Di, this explains wholly owned subsidiaries and how they are seperate legal entities (yeah right!!) and it also explains their get out clauses....
http://www.suetheairlines.org/07_defendants.htm
Ooh interesting, but yeah....
Going to check if i saved any info about the commission in my docs, somehow that part of its gone missing but do remember seeing it.The one and only "Dizzy Di"0 -
Just found this over at PAG when i posted there a while ago...
Broker loan commission payable Day 1 at £1680.00
Broker insurance commission payable - £735.00
Total Realised Expense - cost of Sale - £2415.00
So commission for loan and insurance then.
This was though i remember on scrappy workings out paperwork of the underwriters.
I will have to try to find the actual paperwork for this, as the above does not total up.The one and only "Dizzy Di"0 -
So the broker did receive a commission for the insurance. They have the paperwork "looking" good then! I still think that you were not sold via the broker like you said as the same thing has happened to so many. I hope to god they get a thorough investigation. Has Click now dissolved completely or are there still ivestigiations going on by the administrators? I wish they would/could investigate into this somehow? There is something dodgy with all of this Click business and the OFT allows them to open another business and the same directors and they do not do a thing about it?Just found this over at PAG when i posted there a while ago...
Broker loan commission payable Day 1 at £1680.00
Broker insurance commission payable - £735.00
Total Realised Expense - cost of Sale - £2415.00
So commission for loan and insurance then.
This was though i remember on scrappy workings out paperwork of the underwriters.
I will have to try to find the actual paperwork for this, as the above does not total up.
Commission was 7% on Loan. (This was £24K wasn't it) but its much more on PPI????0 -
marshallka wrote: »So the broker did receive a commission for the insurance. They have the paperwork "looking" good then! I still think that you were not sold via the broker like you said as the same thing has happened to so many. I hope to god they get a thorough investigation. Has Click now dissolved completely or are there still ivestigiations going on by the administrators? I wish they would/could investigate into this somehow? There is something dodgy with all of this Click business and the OFT allows them to open another business and the same directors and they do not do a thing about it?
I just came across another yet piece of scrappy paperwork.
Insurance advanced 30/07/2004??
And another States this -
Brokers Deferred loan commission day one - £0
Brokers deferred loan commission - OVRD - £0
Brokers deferred insurance commission - £0
New business account - £21000
Collections account - £50211.22
Current account - £23646.04
Total Sundry control -£5565.18The one and only "Dizzy Di"0 -
marshallka wrote: »So the broker did receive a commission for the insurance. They have the paperwork "looking" good then! I still think that you were not sold via the broker like you said as the same thing has happened to so many. I hope to god they get a thorough investigation. Has Click now dissolved completely or are there still ivestigiations going on by the administrators? I wish they would/could investigate into this somehow? There is something dodgy with all of this Click business and the OFT allows them to open another business and the same directors and they do not do a thing about it?
Commission was 7% on Loan. (This was £24K wasn't it) but its much more on PPI????
Loan £21K
Ins £2704.42
Total loan - 23704.42
I'm coming across a mixture of calculations now on paperwork.
Loan was that of £21K, and insurance as on agreement - £2835.00 total loan - £23,835The one and only "Dizzy Di"0 -
Di - I think there is one, and only one, line you might try.
Click Financial Limited was directly regulated by the FSA from 14 January 2005 until earlier this year. That means FOS will have jurisdiction if it subscribed to the GISC Code of Practice at the time of the sale. However, Click Financial is in liquidation - so even if it did fall within jurisdiction and FOS found in your favour, you would only be an unsecured creditor and get your share the same as all the rest (and unless an Ombudsman made an award, it would not be legally binding anyway).
However, if Click did not subscribe to the GISC code and Hamilton did then you might have a case against Hamilton. The argument would be that because the GISC code required subscribing insurers to only accept businesses from intermediaries who also subscribed, Hamilton breached the code by accepting your business through an intermdiary that did not subscribe. Had it not done so, then you would not have purchased the policy and therefore Hamilton is culpable for the missale.
FOS should be able to tell you if Click and/or Hamilton subscribed to the GISC code. I suspect Hamilton did because it has been subject to FSA regulation since 2001 and is part of the Aviva Group.0
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