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CCJ from BE Legal/Excel relating to incident in 2012

1246713

Comments

  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,577 Forumite
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    Geoff1963 wrote: »
    Changing an address carries a danger for any motorist who has an unresolved PCN. We advise them to contact the PPC in writing to update them of the change.
    I've never seen that advice anywhere.
    Well here's a very recent one:
    Quentin wrote: »
    Your daughter should write to the PPC.and tell them her correct address for correspondence to avoid a ccj by default in the future which she only finds out about too late
  • patman99
    patman99 Posts: 8,532 Forumite
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    Op, your latest version of your statement is much improved over the original 1st draft.

    I was going to mention that there is no need to go into detail regarding the Heaviest case, but see you have already printed it out.
    Never Knowingly Understood.

    Member #1 of £1,000 challenge - £13.74/ £1000 (that's 1.374%)

    3-6 month EF £0/£3600 (that's 0 days worth)

  • TobyZ
    TobyZ Posts: 48 Forumite
    Johnersh wrote: »
    [I
    I would go to much greater efforts to set out how easily searchable you were (phone book, electoral roll etc), had the Claimant bothered to even take the most rudimentary steps to search for you. The test is one of knowledge. You should state clearly that the Claimant should have known or was negligent as to whether you still resided at the address they had 5 years on. This is critical to CPR 6.9 (look it up!!) - where the failure to respond to critical correspondence and the passage of time should have given them reason to believe that you had moved on.

    I would add that in circumstances where no address can be located, service by social media (Facebook) has been permitted by the Court - AKO Capital LLP & another v TFS Derivatives & others [2012] There was no need to use that address.

    Good advice, thanks. I have some ideas on this front, and one small concern, but I'd rather not discuss them on the public part of the forum. Is it possible to discuss via a personal message?
  • TobyZ
    TobyZ Posts: 48 Forumite
    Hi all, I've had another go at the first section, making a stronger case that the Claimant should have known where I live. Does this do the job? Really want to get this right, as I think the "my defence would have a reasonable chance of success" arg should be watertight given it is pre POFA and there is no keeper liability. I'd like to get this bit watertight too before sending off

    1. Default Judgement
    1.1. I understand that the Claimant obtained a Default Judgement against me as the Defendant in XXXX. However, this claim form has not been served at my current address and I thus was not aware of the Default Judgement XXXXXX. when I was doing a routine check on my credit file. I understand that this Claim was served at an OLD ADDRESS (XXXXXXX). However, I moved to a new address in July 2012, and then again in July 2013. In support of this I have provided confirmation from XXXXXXX County Council showing my updated details for the purposes of paying Council tax.
    1.2. I have also never received any previous documentation from the Claimant in this matter and I thus was never able to properly challenge the Claimant’s claim.
    1.3 The Claimant's claim relates to an incident in March 2012. I have moved twice since the incident. The Claim was served to an address which is over four years out of date.
    1.4. On the XXXX I contacted Northampton County Court to find out details of the Default Judgement. The court papers contain no details of the alleged incident and I do not know what the Default Judgement relates to.
    1.5. On XXXX I contacted the Claimant using information given to me by Northampton County Court. I was advised that it relates to a parking charge notice made against a vehicle for which I was the registered keeper, issued in March 2012. I have requested full paperwork relating to this incident but at present I have not received this. I have no written details of the alleged offense, or the evidence used to support the allegation, other than the summary of charges now owed, which is shown on the Court papers.
    1.6. I believe the Claimant has behaved unreasonably in pursuing a claim against me without ensuring they held the Defendant’s current and correct contact details. According to publicly available information my circumstances are far from being unique. The Claimant’s persistent failure to use correct and current addresses results is an unnecessary burden for individuals and the justice system across the country. This practice was singled out for criticism in the 23rd December 2016 Ministry of Justice announcement of a crackdown on companies issuing claims using incorrect addresses (see exhibit A). Announcing the measures, Justice Minister Sir Oliver Heald stated:

    "It cannot be right that people who are unaware of debts can see their lives and finances ruined by county court judgments.In the digital age, we must ensure companies pursuing unpaid debts make every reasonable effort to contact individuals, rather than simply relying on a letter to an old address."
    1.7 The Claimant pursued this claim, relying simply on a letter to an old address, three months after the announcement of these measures by the government. In so doing, they have disregarded the specific and stated intent of the government and Parliament regarding the pursu
    1.8 Civil Procedure Rule 6.3 requires that "Where a claimant has reason to believe that the address of the defendant referred to in entries 1, 2 or 3 in the table in paragraph (2) is an address at which the defendant no longer resides or carries on business, the claimant must take reasonable steps to ascertain the address of the defendant’s current residence or place of business (‘current address’)."
    1.9 The information the Claimant used was five years old when the Claim was served. The long time elapsed and the lack of response to the claim constitute reasonable grounds to believe that the Defendant had moved. A prudent claimant should assume that lapse of time, or a failure to respond to correspondence, gives rise to a risk that the defendant has moved. The Claimant was negligent in failing to ascertain that a five year old address was still correct before attempting to use that address.
    1.10 Very simple and reasonable steps would quickly have provided the Claimant with both confirmation that the address they used was no longer where the defendant resides, and the information needed to acquire a current address. Such sources of information include, but are not limited to:
    1.10.1 The electoral register, where I have been listed at my current address for over four years
    1.10.2. The local council, where I have been listed at my current address for payment of council tax for over four years
    1.10.3 The DVLA. My current driving licence was issued on 28th August 2014, to my current address. The V5C documentation relating to the vehicle involved in this claim will confirm it was sold in February 2016. The new registered keeper is a family friend who could have either confirmed my new address or provided details of the car I bought in a part exchange deal, which is registered at my new address.
    1.10.4 Internet search engines such as google. The first four links returned by a google search of "[MY NAME FIRST LINE OF MY OLD ADDRESS]" relate to me, as do the first seven searches returned by a google search of "[MY NAME MY TOWN]" and four of the first five links returned by "[MY NAME MY TOWN MY OLD CAR REGISTRATION]". Most of these links provide contact information such as email or mobile telephone.

    1.11. On the basis provided above I argue that the Claimant did not fulfil their duty to use the Defendant’s current address when bringing the claim. They did not take reasonable steps to confirm that a five year old address was still my usual residence, nor did they take reasonable steps to identify my current residence, where I have lived for four years, or to identify an alternative place or alternative method whereby service might be effected.
    1.12. Considering the above I was unable to defend this claim properly. I therefore believe that the Default Judgement against me was issued incorrectly and should be set aside.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,444 Forumite
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    Well put, I think, seems watertight except the sentence cut off here:
    1.7 The Claimant pursued this claim, relying simply on a letter to an old address, three months after the announcement of these measures by the government. In so doing, they have disregarded the specific and stated intent of the government and Parliament regarding the pursu

    Are you going to do as Johnersh suggests to you and others in your shoes, and then attach a copy of the defence you would have filed, if you had known about the claim? A pre-POFA case is very, very winnable.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • TobyZ
    TobyZ Posts: 48 Forumite
    Thanks! I will amend that statement to complete the sentence

    Yes, I am going to submit a sample defence as an exhibit, as Johnsersh suggested - happy to share for comments if this is useful.

    Couple of small queries regarding getting this sent off:
    1. How long do I have? I know time is of the essence with this. I'm hoping to get it sent off this week (so will go off within a week of my hearing about the CCJ). But I might like to get some legally minded friends/colleagues to check it all. Could I take a little longer?
    2. Not sure what to put on a couple of the N244 questions -
    Q3 - "What order are you asking the court to make and why?" Do I just put "Set judgement aside - defendant had no knowledge and no opportunity to defend" Or should I also say that I am asking for the case to be dismissed (as I say that in the WS)
    Q9 - who should be served with this application (& 9a - service address) - is this BW Legal? Excel? Or both?
    3. I have been a little confused about what I need to prove to get this set aside. Initially I thought I need to prove BOTH that I had no knowledge of it due to old address AND that I have a reasonable chance to defend it successfully. But some of the cases I've been reading suggest that EITHER grounds is sufficient on its own. Is it both or either?
  • Hi guys ..sorry to jump into this but the above case is similar to mine ...jan 2014 i supposedly parked my car without paying on peel centre stockport ..all i did was pick someone up then later drop them off at their car in same carpark ...in sept last year i got a ccj from bw legal whom id never heard of which was put in my old address .i left that address in march 2014 and bw legal have just sent me letters wanting £255 ...or enforcement will commence i have til 25th aug to come to an agreement with a discount ..to £150 ..this is causing me stress and i dont know what is best to do ...alli did was pick up and drop off someone and been issued now woth a fine and ccj ..can anyone help me too on this ..thanks
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961 Forumite
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    Tobyz - your order should be
    1) Set aside the claim
    2) Claimant to pay costs of set aside application

    Oldhamlee - get off this thread and into your own. NOW. This is a live CCJ and your interference will NOT help the OP

    Start a thread, and get going with your CCJ application if thats what you want to do. BUt do NOT discuss it here.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,444 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post Photogenic First Anniversary
    TobyZ wrote: »
    Thanks! I will amend that statement to complete the sentence

    Yes, I am going to submit a sample defence as an exhibit, as Johnsersh suggested - happy to share for comments if this is useful.

    Couple of small queries regarding getting this sent off:
    1. How long do I have? I know time is of the essence with this. I'm hoping to get it sent off this week (so will go off within a week of my hearing about the CCJ). But I might like to get some legally minded friends/colleagues to check it all. Could I take a little longer?
    2. Not sure what to put on a couple of the N244 questions -
    Q3 - "What order are you asking the court to make and why?" Do I just put "Set judgement aside - defendant had no knowledge and no opportunity to defend" Or should I also say that I am asking for the case to be dismissed (as I say that in the WS)

    Q9 - who should be served with this application (& 9a - service address) - is this BW Legal? Excel? Or both?

    3. I have been a little confused about what I need to prove to get this set aside. Initially I thought I need to prove BOTH that I had no knowledge of it due to old address AND that I have a reasonable chance to defend it successfully. But some of the cases I've been reading suggest that EITHER grounds is sufficient on its own. Is it both or either?

    Go with what Johnersh has already told you, he is legally qualified and posts easy-to-follow advice.

    Here, he has already said to AB Express:

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=73014148#post73014148

    ''The application and all accompanying documents should be served on the lawyers representing the Claimant. For good measure you may wish to copy in the Claimant at their registered address in the event that they choose to obtain alternative representation.''
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • The argument under CPR 6 (wrong address/failed steps to check address) is that the court proceedings were not validly served, thus no judgment should have been entered in default. This is automatic, as night follows day and the set aside is mandatory if the court are content there was no valid service. Simply put: If C screws up service, it's on him, and he is not entitled to judgment.

    This is entirely distinct from the secondary argument that the case is defensible and you should be permitted to defend it, with judgment then set aside on a discretionary basis. That info is there as back up - with all the detail in the defence, not cluttering up your statement.

    In relation to the terms of the order and why it is sought, the point is therefore simple, not long-winded:

    (a) C failed to effect good service
    (b) the claim never came to your attention as D
    (c) as a result of the failure to serve, C was not entitled to ask for and should not have obtained default judgment. As such the court is respectfully requested to set aside the judgment.

    These are of course all fact specific, but I reiterate where the emphasis should be, if your case suits that argument.

    Finally, don't mess about. Get this filed and serve it this week. If copying post to the PPC use the registered companies house address (Google it) unless/until informed otherwise.
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