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  • FIRST POST
    • molokoid
    • By molokoid 29th Jun 08, 5:46 PM
    • 22Posts
    • 14Thanks
    molokoid
    Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route?
    • #1
    • 29th Jun 08, 5:46 PM
    Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers / supply route? 29th Jun 08 at 5:46 PM
    Hi all,

    Moved into a house in Jan that has a bulk LPG tank, which was previously supplied (and the tank is owned by) Calor. The contract they were really keen for me to sign was quite a restrictive lock in one and after speaking and a bit of negotiating they dropped the standing charge and discounted the pence per litre by 12%. This only made me sceptical that they had a lot of fat in the price anyway and there seems to be limited information available on the net about bulk lpg supply (lots of websites that will find you the cheapest supply for a fee!). Seems to be crying out for a MSE article if there are enough bulk lpg owners out there.

    Anyway, i read that there is some sort of regulation coming into the market which allows me to choose the supplier i wish and in turn they buy the tank off the previous owners. This seems to be a more market competitive way of doing it, but i can't find out when this is due to happen.

    Are there any bulk lpg owners out there that can give me some advice?

    TIA
Page 2
  • x-x
    I have also just received a Flogas Supply Agreement . They are asking me to sign an agreement which does not appear to have any benefits for me. However the agreement would tie me into a contract with Flogas for between 2 to 5 years and if I wanted to terminate the contact I would have to pay £120 to have the tank removed and compensate them for breaking the contact.
    If I don't sign I presumably would not have to pay for them to collect their tank and not pay any compensation.
    I guess I won't be signing the contract.
    My contract is for less than 42p/litre including surcharge. They have tried several times in the past to increase the price but I have said that I would change supplier. It does look like some LPG suppliers will charge whatever they can get away with and they do not publish their prices. It may be a good idea if more people were to publish how much they are paying to help get a more competitive market going.
    There is a web site www.lpgwatch.co.uk (I have no association with this site) and if LPG buyers report on how who their suppliers are and how much they are paying per litre we may all benefit.
    • longforgotten
    • By longforgotten 11th Sep 08, 9:55 PM
    • 1,034 Posts
    • 673 Thanks
    longforgotten
    Well thank you all, I knew I would get some advice here !

    Visited my Mum today and she was asking me my advice on the 'supply agreement ' she has received. I cannot remember her ever signing such a supply agreement , it may have been when Dad was alive and they first had gas from British Gas. But that is many years ago.

    I instantly thought they were up to something because of the new rules coming in about the tanks. They do not deserve any customers for being so underhand. They are attempting to tie people into a contract at a time when they may not have heard of the change in terms re: the tank.

    Let's face it in Mums letter they use the term ' It has come to my attention that your current supply agreement has lapsed'. I suspect Mums 'agreement' lapsed 13 years ago if the first agreement lasted 5 years !

    I've got a good mind to ring up and ask for a copy of the last supply agreement just to find how long ago it was !

    I know Mum will not want the tank changed. It then means waiting for the new legislation. So the question is if Mum does not sign the form will they continue to deliver gas.............
  • Denis0151
    Lpg
    Hi, I have also just received Flogas's new supply agreement. I can't actually read the Ts and Cs. I won't be signing it. They are after 35.35p/l + a 10.9p/l surcharge all no doubt subject to 5% VAT. My tank is 20 years old and Flogas phoned me recently to tell me they were arriving the following week to change it. I put them on hold as this was just the moment I was waiting for to bench mark them against others. I'm currently paying 43.25p/l all in plus VAT. Country Wide Farmers quoted 34p/l + VAT, a big saving with no charge for changing the tank. All was going well until they noticed I have a mature oak tree above the current tank so have over hanging branches. They have suggested I construct a new concrete base about 3m away but it would then be on the edge of my lawn! The branches are about 8-10m above the tank so I can't see there is actually a problem. Anyone else come across this? Apparently something to do with a new regulation...

    BP were the next cheapest (38.45p/l for 6 months rising to 40.95p/l all plus VAT) so I'm going to see if they have the same issue.
    Last edited by Denis0151; 11-09-2008 at 11:03 PM.
    • longforgotten
    • By longforgotten 12th Sep 08, 1:27 PM
    • 1,034 Posts
    • 673 Thanks
    longforgotten
    Dennis I read somewhere on this site about the issue of the tanks siting. It went something like if a new tank is put in place now then the new ruling about siting ie. trees etc have to be adhered to. It is therefore better to wait until you can change suppliers without the need to change tanks.
  • methusala
    Can anyone tell me is it possible to purchase your own LPG tank and from where ??
  • Denis0151
    Dennis I read somewhere on this site about the issue of the tanks siting. It went something like if a new tank is put in place now then the new ruling about siting ie. trees etc have to be adhered to. It is therefore better to wait until you can change suppliers without the need to change tanks.
    Originally posted by longforgotten
    Thanks for this. The problem is that the current tank is 20 years old. According to Flogas it should be changed. Interestingly, Flogas don't see an issue with the current location! I've just heard from another supplier that doesn't deliver to my area that an announcement about the timing of the new legislation will be made at the end of this month and it will become effective either in December this year or March of next year. Apparently, we shall be required to pay the owner of the tank the standing charge and will be free to obtain gas from whoever we like. A price war is predicted! It's certainly worth hanging on for a while..
    • longforgotten
    • By longforgotten 19th Sep 08, 3:10 PM
    • 1,034 Posts
    • 673 Thanks
    longforgotten
    I contacted Flogas by e-mail last week and have had no reply as yet.

    On the other hand I e-mailed lpgsolutions this afternoon and had a reply almost straight away. Absolutely marvellous !! Their website is very informative too. It is so refreshing to contact a company and get such a quick and helpful reply. It's made my day.

    Here is their website if you would like to check it out, well worth a look

    http://www.lpg-solutions.co.uk/index.html

    Here is my reply from lpg solutions...

    'Your Mum is probably still under some form of contract, albeit expired and within notice period. We would suggest you ask for a copy of any existing contract before doing anything else. It is advisable to establish if you are
    outside the core period of the contract . It is suspicious that their customers are being written to - we've had numerous people onto our website with similar questions. As of this week the latest from the Competition Commission is that the legislation has been delayed yet further (giving existing suppliers more of an opportunity to re-sign their existing customers!) and will not be in place until after Christmas.This being said, we would suggest you keep your options open for your Mum and wait until the legislation is available, which will increase competition
    and make changing suppliers much easier. '


    I have phoned Flogas today for a copy of the old agreement. The lady said that these letters were being sent out to customers whose agreements had lapsed, and to those who do not have an agreement at all !!! So it will be interesting to see how old the old agreement actually is !

    Just a mention, for those like Mum who had previously been British Gas customers and were transferred across to Flogas, Flogas just told me that was in 2002. Six years gone by already !
    Last edited by longforgotten; 20-09-2008 at 1:51 PM.
  • mumraa
    Hi, we rent our property and Flogas have been charging us £85 a month. Now they want to charge us £130 a month yet we only use around 600-900 litres a year. They also charge a standing charge of around £18 a month. it sucks. What would happen if we just ask another company to fill up the tank without telling flogas?
  • johntb
    flogas
    hi we to had the new contract to sign i asked for the old one and was told it had expired, i told the lady on the phone that we where waiting for the change in the legislation, and would not be willing to sign until then if we where offed a better price deal she said that was fine we are at this time paying 34.85p per litre and 10.9p surcharge, and 14.79p standing charge
  • msmo
    Calor Just Informed us that as Of October 1st our gas will increase from .4015 per litre to .4710, plus of course standing charges ect..
    As you say She2656 Unbelievable !! they vary SO much, from the same company ???
    Thankfully we live in a smallish park Home, so our use is not as high as many on here, but as pensioners and feeling the cold more and more these days this Increase is a biggy for us too.

    By the way, had a man from calor last week cleaning and Painting our tank ! never been done in the 6 years weve lived here..He told me that Calor and Flogas were one and the same company ..anyone know If this is right ?
    • longforgotten
    • By longforgotten 4th Oct 08, 12:43 PM
    • 1,034 Posts
    • 673 Thanks
    longforgotten
    Asked Flogas for a copy of the old agreement. Guess what, it was signed in 1992 !!

    They are just trying to catch people out. They do not deserve any customers at all !!
  • msmo
    Sounds as If were being ripped off by all the companies doesnt it ?
    lets revolt shall we
    • chubbybrown4real
    • By chubbybrown4real 9th Oct 08, 10:56 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    chubbybrown4real
    Calor and Flogas are not the same company.
    Calor probably have around half the market.
    Flogas are irish and are basically trying to buy any competition out,they bought out Total and also British gas Propane,Super gas,Nwy cymru Propane
    The filling of the supply pipe with expanding foam is supposed to be from a safety point of view saying they are purging the line of gas,sounds plausable doesnt it?
    Its an old British gas trick to avoid roll overs ( going from one company to another)
    Tank refurbs and sales were possible until Bp bought out schnieder industries in Scotland,so Bp do all the refurbs for all companies unless you goto Van leer in Belgium.
    In the future companies will be able to aquire other companies tanks this is true but with main 20 year tests looming on any tank and the costs that go with it,I doubt many lpg suppliers will proceed.
    Then you have different standards of tank all should confirm to Bs PD 5500 BUT some of the larger companies Exceed this,pays your money!
    I wouldnt sign any contracts and at least then you are out of contract and can say so and therefore haggle.
    Bp are actively fitting devices to stop Pirate tank filling as the tanks talk to sattelites when filled or get to a low level,Honour amongst thieves.
    My gas boiler is 16 years old and I wait another 2 years until British gas bring out a mega efficient boiler,if my one can hold out :-)
    Running new pipework and a new tank is the best way forward for rolling as the gas company who depending on who they are,are responsible for the pipework to the stop tap,so therefore wanting to replace so they know its plastic and up to scratch.
    Some older houses will have a cast Iron pipe and will rot!
    Most will have upso/opsos either seperate or fitted on the supply line on or near the tank,larger users will also have a 2nd stage too.
    forgot to say Shell/Gleaner are big in Scotland.

    www.lpga.co.uk

    for suppliers who atain a certain standard

    anything else Just ask.

    cheers

    Chubbz
    • chubbybrown4real
    • By chubbybrown4real 9th Oct 08, 11:00 PM
    • 101 Posts
    • 21 Thanks
    chubbybrown4real
    The Competition Commission (CC) is about to conclude its investigation into the domestic bulk LPG market, customers who are not in contract will be able to switch supplier without having to change tanks.
    Sorry shamelessly copied and pasted.
    • Tweetinat
    • By Tweetinat 16th Oct 08, 1:02 PM
    • 184 Posts
    • 91 Thanks
    Tweetinat
    13th April 2009 - Transfer of tanks to new suppliers!
    Further to the last post I downloaded the following information from the CC website today which indicates that from 13th April 2009 we should be able to obtain LPG supplies from any company without having to replace the tank:

    http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/inquiries/current/gas/lpgas_order_faq.pdf

    http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/inquiries/current/gas/lpg_order_explanatory_note.pdf

    http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/inquiries/current/gas/index.htm

    Hope this helps - Natalie
  • notverymerrywidow
    Thanks, Natalie: you beat me to it!!

    I have also received a contract from Flogas - addressed to my dead husband.....

    I asked them today whether they are proposing to reduce their prices in view of the 50% drop in oil price since July.

    They said 'No'. What a surprise!

    (PS: my first posting!!!)
  • Gez_W
    Flogas
    Rather than trying to deal with the shambolic customer services team at Flogas, who are after all only following orders, trying contacting the decision makers themselves:

    Russell Burrows, Head of Customer Management: russell.burrows@flogas.co.uk

    Henry Cubbon, Managing Director: henry.cubbon@flogas.co.uk
  • exgasman
    exgasman
    I too am a Flogas customer and have recently been sent a contract which I have not signed. I had a second letter, about a month after the above contract, saying that the gas had gone up a further 5 pence, but that I could have this price fixed if I signed a contract. I have not replied.We have had the gas installation since the house was built, about 16 years, we installed the pipework, British Gas tested and connected it. The only contract I remember was at the time of the origional installation.
    Reading the other letters has prompted me to offer this contribution.
    I am a qualified Incorporated Engineer, and worked in the Gas industry for 26 years, including 18 years with British Gas, taking early retirement some 16 years ago.
    I held responsible positions in the Distribution department, which dealt with the installation and maintenence of mains and pipelines. I had no dealings with LPG.
    I offer this information so that readers can form an opinion as to my possible knowledge of the subject. I would like to comment on three points.
    Firstly, the mention of pipes having to be filled with foam for safety reasons. I have never heard of this before, pipes can be pressure tested, and if sound, there is no engineering reason to fill it with foam, or to insist on it's replacement The gas could be purged from the pipe using nitrogene, the pipe sealed each end, and could be tested and reused at any later time.
    Tanks need to be changed after 20 years? I have never heard of this, British Gas have many above ground installations, pipes across bridges, pressure reducing stations, etc, which are monitered as to condition, but a programme to replace every 20 years would be totally impractible.
    I see a mention of "LPG Solutions". Does anyone know who this is? I can find no address for this organisation. I would not buy goods on the internet if I could not find an address for the seller, neither would I "register", and give personal details, on a website, unless I had some information as to their background. Perhaps if they read this, they will post a reply
    I seem to have rambled on, I hope this is of some use to those Flogas (and other LPG companies) customers, who have had enough. It is past time that some regulation, or at least competition, was brought to this industry.
  • treeshark
    Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers - Contract
    I have recently (3mths ago) bought a house with a 1200ltr Calor LPG tank. Over this time I've used 1/8th and have approx 3/16th left so am requiring a top-up soon. I have approached Calor and have been sent a welcome pack, the terms seem very restrictive. The standing charge is 16.90/day +Vat & ppl was 40.15 +Vat. On 8th Sept I received a letter stating an increase of 6.95ppl +Vat. I have not yet signed a contract or Direct Debit mandate, but am unable to wait until April for the new Competition Commission regulations to come into force. Bearing in mind the sharp drop in crude oil is this a reasonable deal? What's my best course of action?
  • x-x
    Bulk LPG - Cheapest suppliers - Contract
    treeshark

    If Calor own your tank then they are probably the only company allowed to refill it and I would presume that you are already paying rental to them for the tank.
    If this is the case just ask them to fill your tank but do not sign any contract and wait and see what happens after April next year
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