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    • 80's Girl
    • By 80's Girl 12th Aug 17, 3:50 PM
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    80's Girl
    Part time....morphing into Full time
    • #1
    • 12th Aug 17, 3:50 PM
    Part time....morphing into Full time 12th Aug 17 at 3:50 PM
    Hi All (new 2nd account to keep "work-stuff" separate to main account)

    I currently work part time in a job i really enjoy and have been doing for a number of years. Recently our department has started to do really well (new contracts/clients etc) and the workload is increasing (i'm "back-office").

    However management seem reluctant to recruit and have been expecting everyone to do extra to cover the growth. Our contracts says something along the lines of "additional hours as necessary", but this isn't just about finishing a specific job, or meeting a deadline....it's ongoing day to day work.

    At what point are they effectively turning my Part Time job into a Full Time one?? How much of a % of contracted hours / additional hours do you feel should be acceptable? Do you feel the rules are applied differently to PT vs FT workers in these circumstances? Should i just politely say, No Sorry, i'm not available? I don't want to drop my colleagues in it either?

    Also, i'm sure i'd read somewhere (maybe on here) that to regularly DO the additional hours, you agree to them being your contracted hours "by default". Is that correct and does it hold water?

    Where do i stand if my Part-Time job is effectively redundant?

    Thoughts.....and thanks.
    Last edited by 80's Girl; 12-08-2017 at 3:54 PM.
Page 1
    • 80's Girl
    • By 80's Girl 13th Aug 17, 8:05 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    80's Girl
    • #2
    • 13th Aug 17, 8:05 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Aug 17, 8:05 AM
    Anyone????
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Aug 17, 8:42 AM
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    sangie595
    • #3
    • 13th Aug 17, 8:42 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Aug 17, 8:42 AM
    Well you aren't going to get very accurate advice quoting that your contacts say "something like"! What they actually say is the issue!

    That said, no, your hours don't become something else because you regularly do overtime. They remain what is in your contract. There is no definition of what "reasonable overtime" is, and no, you are not redundant. Getting more work doesn't make a post redundant - quite the opposite! So basically, if you don't want to do the hours, then you must decide what is "enough", and say so.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 13th Aug 17, 9:40 AM
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    getmore4less
    • #4
    • 13th Aug 17, 9:40 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Aug 17, 9:40 AM
    You should not be discriminated by being part time.

    by using overtime they keep a bit of flexibility within the workforce but can also sneak in savings.

    Are you getting the benefits of these extra hours as OT on part time compared to full time worker.

    For regular OT you want the pay and holiday accrual for the hours up to full time as that is what a full timer would get.

    To get the contracts changed top more hours is case of negotiation.

    also might mean if you don't want the hours there is a need to adjust expectations through availability measures.
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 13th Aug 17, 1:07 PM
    • 5,541 Posts
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    bugslet
    • #5
    • 13th Aug 17, 1:07 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Aug 17, 1:07 PM
    Have you spoken to the management? They are obviously aware that your hours have increased.

    I'd go and say something along the lines of that as in previous years you have been happy to work extra hours and are now, but you can see how the work is evolving and rather it be a short term requirement, it's now continual.

    You need to know beforehand what you actually want - do you want a full time job, or do you want to stick to part time. And then you can make a suggestion to either do full time of press for another part timer.


    Good luck.
    • Gavin83
    • By Gavin83 13th Aug 17, 1:41 PM
    • 4,608 Posts
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    Gavin83
    • #6
    • 13th Aug 17, 1:41 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Aug 17, 1:41 PM
    Do you get paid for the overtime?
    • 80's Girl
    • By 80's Girl 13th Aug 17, 1:43 PM
    • 4 Posts
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    80's Girl
    • #7
    • 13th Aug 17, 1:43 PM
    • #7
    • 13th Aug 17, 1:43 PM
    Thank you all for your replies.

    I'm not able to quote the exact wording, as i don't have it to hand, but like i said, it's a catch-all phrase that implies that you shall do any extra required.

    No, i don't really want to be doing the extra hours, and have no wish to work full time. My time is my time.

    When i say redundant, if they need someone to do a full time role, can they not make the PT role redundant, and then advertise FT position (which i would not be applying for)?

    I think i'm going to need my diplomacy hat. And i love the phrase....."adjust expectations through availability measures"....sorry, i'm washing my hair!!!!

    Any SME bosses out there with an opinion of how you'd deal with the situation?
    • GlasweJen
    • By GlasweJen 13th Aug 17, 2:36 PM
    • 6,260 Posts
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    GlasweJen
    • #8
    • 13th Aug 17, 2:36 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Aug 17, 2:36 PM
    No your role isn't redundant, if more hours are available and you don't want them your work should either be spreading the new work load around your colleagues who do want more hours of hiring someone to cover the hours deficit.
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    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 13th Aug 17, 2:37 PM
    • 3,777 Posts
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    sangie595
    • #9
    • 13th Aug 17, 2:37 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Aug 17, 2:37 PM
    Thank you all for your replies.

    I'm not able to quote the exact wording, as i don't have it to hand, but like i said, it's a catch-all phrase that implies that you shall do any extra required.

    No, i don't really want to be doing the extra hours, and have no wish to work full time. My time is my time.

    When i say redundant, if they need someone to do a full time role, can they not make the PT role redundant, and then advertise FT position (which i would not be applying for)?

    I think i'm going to need my diplomacy hat. And i love the phrase....."adjust expectations through availability measures"....sorry, i'm washing my hair!!!!

    Any SME bosses out there with an opinion of how you'd deal with the situation?
    Originally posted by 80's Girl
    Well then I think you have to be clear in your expectations then. If you don't want to work more hours, then you have to say so - not send mixed messages about not wanting to leave them or your colleagues in the lurch. You do have to do some - and you are stuck with the fact that your contract requires it but there is no legal definition of what a reasonable amount is, so that is something you need to work out with your employer.

    No they can't make a part time job redundant to make it full time. That would be a disaster made for an unfair dismissal claim, and probably a sex discrimination claim too. It was involve making a post redundant because the post holder isn't full time - so start with treating part-time workers differently than full time workers, add an unfair dismissal to that, and then throw in the fact that most part-time workers are women so it is indirect discrimination. If they need more staff, they can recruit more staff - full or part time. But they cannot terminate your employment simply because you work part-time and they want you to work more hours.
    • bugslet
    • By bugslet 13th Aug 17, 8:27 PM
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    bugslet
    I'm the boss of a small firm, 23 staff. My advice is as before, but now knowing that you wish to stay part time.

    All my staff get paid hourly bar management, so that's straightforward. Management is full time, but their hours are fairly standard. If they were doing a lot more hours I'd be looking to add an employee.

    There's a difference between being helpful and being taken advantage of.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 14th Aug 17, 8:57 AM
    • 29,995 Posts
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    getmore4less
    Without really knowing a bit more about the people mix and the work loads difficult to say how a strategy might play out to reduce hours.

    have the total No of extra hours everyone does(for type of work) gone over the threshold for another part/full timer, how much capacity is left by upping peoples hours even more.

    Is it impacting the ability to book holidays yet?
    This can be critical as the problem gets worse the closer to the end of holiday year you get.

    How the hours are getting added on eg. extra days on a 3 day part timer or extra hours on a 5 day part timer....
    The strategy will be different if you want to pull back your hours.

    If you pull back are there others* that want the hours/money

    Are there other factors like seasonal where they don't want to take on more staff knowing there will be a quiet period.


    * A place I have dealings with employs a lot of people and are still short.

    The students want as many hours as they can get but availability varies.

    The single parents prefer to avoid extra, more time with the kids, less hassle arranging care and less messing with tax credits.
    • 80's Girl
    • By 80's Girl 14th Aug 17, 3:00 PM
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    80's Girl
    @ Gavin 83. Yes, I get paid, so that's not the issue.

    @ GetMore4less - I'm not comfortable about putting too much specifics on here - i'd be mortified if bosses saw it and recognized themselves or the situation!!

    I guess I just wanted some assurance that i wouldn't be made redundant, or face disciplinary, if i started to say "No, sorry" a bit more often.

    p.s. I left on time today! (baby steps!)
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 14th Aug 17, 3:17 PM
    • 29,995 Posts
    • 17,925 Thanks
    getmore4less

    @ GetMore4less - I'm not comfortable about putting too much specifics on here - i'd be mortified if bosses saw it and recognized themselves or the situation!!

    I guess I just wanted some assurance that i wouldn't be made redundant, or face disciplinary, if i started to say "No, sorry" a bit more often.

    p.s. I left on time today! (baby steps!)
    Originally posted by 80's Girl
    Not expecting more just throwing some ideas in the pot that may help on your strategy to set expectations.


    One thing I forgot, is be very aware of what is really important that needs doing and the stuff that can wait.

    try to not get caught cutting back when there is one of those important things on the table, sometime if the opportunity is there being seen to step up(when convenient) can help.

    another thing with expectations is how thye get people to do more, as it becomes expected management often drop the need to ask and just expect often finding "urgent" work late in the day which becomes difficult to say no too or get seen as the one not pulling your weight.

    Giving the warning early pre-empts that, "can't stay late today got something on" passes the responsibility back to plan better or ask someone else.
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