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  • FIRST POST
    • lovesgshp
    • By lovesgshp 6th Jan 11, 7:18 PM
    • 1,261Posts
    • 709Thanks
    lovesgshp
    Ground Source Heat Pumps
    • #1
    • 6th Jan 11, 7:18 PM
    Ground Source Heat Pumps 6th Jan 11 at 7:18 PM
    If anyone wants info on these, then please let me know, as have had one for over 5 years.
Page 50
    • DeeWestern
    • By DeeWestern 7th Aug 17, 1:29 PM
    • 96 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    DeeWestern
    On the basis it's a bit big to drag down to Shell, it it worth buying a car pressure gauge to see if this is a problem? What range should the pressure be?
    • beardymarrow
    • By beardymarrow 7th Aug 17, 1:39 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 117 Thanks
    beardymarrow
    On the basis it's a bit big to drag down to Shell, it it worth buying a car pressure gauge to see if this is a problem? What range should the pressure be?
    Originally posted by DeeWestern
    :-). I would buy one, yes, it will be very cheap. The tank will say on it, but it looks like 3.3bar. I'll defer to lovesgshp but I can't see how this could cause the high delta. Should still be fixed if it's a problem though as you could get rust in your hot water if the diaphragm is leaking.
    • DeeWestern
    • By DeeWestern 7th Aug 17, 1:44 PM
    • 96 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    DeeWestern
    Something is slowing down the flow of hot water round the system in my garage, either in the GSHP box or the large white box container with the tanks.

    It's not the filter (alarm happens when the filter is removed), the pumps are all set to their highest speed - so I'm at at a loss as to what it can be. Everything works fine other than the alarm going off (and it's been like this for years).

    I mentioned the pressure tank just as the red one was something I had had to earlier check (and repressurise) but if it's not going to cause the problem then it must be something else.

    So frustrating.
    • beardymarrow
    • By beardymarrow 7th Aug 17, 1:53 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 117 Thanks
    beardymarrow
    Something is slowing down the flow of hot water round the system in my garage, either in the GSHP box or the large white box container with the tanks.

    It's not the filter (alarm happens when the filter is removed), the pumps are all set to their highest speed - so I'm at at a loss as to what it can be. Everything works fine other than the alarm going off (and it's been like this for years).

    I mentioned the pressure tank just as the red one was something I had had to earlier check (and repressurise) but if it's not going to cause the problem then it must be something else.

    So frustrating.
    Originally posted by DeeWestern
    For the cost of a couple of quid for the pressure gauge it's worth a check.
    • Patrol
    • By Patrol 13th Aug 17, 10:42 AM
    • 79 Posts
    • 66 Thanks
    Patrol
    My white expansion vessel (as per your picture on 8 August) was replaced a while back, I was told it should not be full of water and likely caused by a pinhole leak although it was probably full since day 1. Got a local plumber to do it, but it had been like that for several years without causing any alarms so doubt it is the cause of your alarms.

    When you say the flow slows down in your garage, is it possible the pipework there has some sort of blockage. I can't remember specifics of your install, have you 1 unit (combined heat pump and water cylinder), 2 (heat pump and separate water cylinder) or 3 (plus buffer tank).
    • DeeWestern
    • By DeeWestern 13th Aug 17, 11:22 AM
    • 96 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    DeeWestern
    For the cost of a couple of quid for the pressure gauge it's worth a check.
    Originally posted by beardymarrow
    Thanks, as I opened the packet I realised the white vessel couldn't be the only problem, as the alarm goes in heating mode too. Anyway, the white vessel had a pressure reading of 2.4 bar which isn't too bad I guess?
    • DeeWestern
    • By DeeWestern 13th Aug 17, 11:41 AM
    • 96 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    DeeWestern
    When you say the flow slows down in your garage, is it possible the pipework there has some sort of blockage. I can't remember specifics of your install, have you 1 unit (combined heat pump and water cylinder), 2 (heat pump and separate water cylinder) or 3 (plus buffer tank).
    Originally posted by Patrol
    I say the problem must be in the garage (rather than the house) as the alarm goes when just the hot water tank is being warmed, and also when the heating tank is being warmed. If the blockage was in the radiators then the DHW should be fine I think.

    I have 3 units next to each other:


    This is box 1:



    This is box 2 (Hot Water I think):


    This box 3 (Heating):
    • lovesgshp
    • By lovesgshp 13th Aug 17, 5:16 PM
    • 1,261 Posts
    • 709 Thanks
    lovesgshp
    DW.
    I am going to have a check with our engineer when he returns from holiday after this week.
    You have checked the filter, which is clean, so that is eliminated at the moment.
    As the DHW is still alarming, there is a possibility that a blockage could be in the flow to the 3 way valve, especially if you are in a hard water area.
    Can you get a plumber to take off the full valve and pipe connections to check this out?
    As Manuel says in Fawlty Towers: " I Know Nothing"
    • DeeWestern
    • By DeeWestern 13th Aug 17, 5:50 PM
    • 96 Posts
    • 33 Thanks
    DeeWestern
    DW.
    Can you get a plumber to take off the full valve and pipe connections to check this out?
    Originally posted by lovesgshp
    Happy to do so, but let's wait until we've heard from the engineer so can get all the jobs done at the same time. It's a very soft water area.
    • lovesgshp
    • By lovesgshp 13th Aug 17, 6:02 PM
    • 1,261 Posts
    • 709 Thanks
    lovesgshp
    OK, no problem. I do hope we can sort it out, as this is annoying that we have not found the answer as yet.
    It still seems to be pointing to the 3 way valve area in many respects, although the tests look alright at the moment.
    Will update you as soon as I can.
    As Manuel says in Fawlty Towers: " I Know Nothing"
    • beardymarrow
    • By beardymarrow 14th Aug 17, 10:40 AM
    • 134 Posts
    • 117 Thanks
    beardymarrow

    I have 3 units next to each other:

    This is box 1:

    This is box 2 (Hot Water I think):

    This box 3 (Heating):
    Originally posted by DeeWestern
    Yes, you've got it right. Box 1 is the gshp itself. Box 2 is the DHW tank where it stores your hot water (the gshp pumps hot water through pipes in this tank to warm the water in it, the gshp doesn't directly heat the DHW) and box 3 is a buffer tank for the heating to help even out the demand.
    • lovesgshp
    • By lovesgshp 29th Aug 17, 8:48 PM
    • 1,261 Posts
    • 709 Thanks
    lovesgshp
    Hi DW.
    Have just had this answer back from our engineer after I sent him the information that you supplied. To get the parts locally, would be better for you, than to have them sent from Italy as he suggests.

    "OK.
    I think the customer has to check the two flexible hoses on the left side of the heat pump starting from the upper one.
    probably there is a restriction of the flow there, due to a couple of reasons:
    - bad water on the heating circuit
    - internal rubber deterioration (we experienced some cases).

    Probably they will find the two hoses obstructed. The have to substitute them.
    We can supply the original spare parts (Different black colour) or they can buy a non original part locally"


    Hope this helps.
    As Manuel says in Fawlty Towers: " I Know Nothing"
    • JHen
    • By JHen 8th Sep 17, 8:35 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JHen
    Hi lovesgshp,
    I've noticed my expansion tank is less that 1/3 full. How to I go about topping this up and with what.

    Also, is it possible to have an evening and day heating temperature setting?

    Thanks.
    • lovesgshp
    • By lovesgshp 8th Sep 17, 10:14 AM
    • 1,261 Posts
    • 709 Thanks
    lovesgshp
    Hi JHen.
    You can top up the expansion tank with just plain water, or if the installer left you some of the coolant mix. Make sure the ground loop circulating pump is running and then remove the valve at the top of the expansion tank and fill to 2/3rds. Refit valve and you should be ok.

    With regard to the heating, then you could use the timer, but you only have the option of 1 setting per day. This only reduces the flow temperature to the heating and should not be confused with room temperature.
    If you are using rads then the max is 4C, or for underfloor max 2C.
    HTH. If you need any more info then let me know.
    As Manuel says in Fawlty Towers: " I Know Nothing"
    • JHen
    • By JHen 8th Sep 17, 12:55 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    JHen
    How do I know if the glc pump is running - is his when the water/heater light is in and it make the murmuring noise? Do you know what coolant mix I need to buy?

    Yes, I was talking about the room temperature . We wanted a day and night setting. Looking at the panel this does not look possible - perhaps I'll need to get some radiator thermostat/timers for the bedrooms.

    As usual - many thanks for you help.
    • lovesgshp
    • By lovesgshp 8th Sep 17, 1:16 PM
    • 1,261 Posts
    • 709 Thanks
    lovesgshp
    Do you know how to get into the service/installer menu? From that you can operate the manual control of the circulating pump, instead of waiting for normal operation.
    For coolant, in your case, just use water, as you will not dilute the mix by any significant amount. If you want the proper coolant, then it will be: "pure propylene glycol" used for air conditioning systems.

    If you want to control the heating with thermostatic rad valves, then you must ensure that 70% of the heating circuits are fully open at all times.
    As Manuel says in Fawlty Towers: " I Know Nothing"
    • beardymarrow
    • By beardymarrow 8th Sep 17, 1:29 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 117 Thanks
    beardymarrow
    <snip>

    Yes, I was talking about the room temperature . We wanted a day and night setting. Looking at the panel this does not look possible - perhaps I'll need to get some radiator thermostat/timers for the bedrooms.

    As usual - many thanks for you help.
    Originally posted by JHen
    Reducing the rad return temp by 3deg (option 4.1 in the menu of an IVT) on the timer at night should give you the same end result. We found that as our house is so well insulated so takes ages to cool, and the GSHP takes time to warm a cool house we were better off not messing with that setting, as it didn't save us any money in the end. We just turn the rad thermostat down on the bedroom rads.
    • frslam
    • By frslam 18th Nov 17, 7:09 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    frslam
    Ivt ht+ e7
    I have been running a Heatpump for the last 7.5 years. It is an IVT HT Plus E7, External 280Ltr Tank (double shell) with Solar Thermal Pipework installed (Solar Thermal not completed yet). I also have a 100Ltr Buffer Tank, all Rooms individually controlled with Underfloor Heating on 2 x floors. In winter time I usually open all upstairs loops fully, hoping that the Temperature difference won't be too great for heat cycle, hoping that it'll make the system more efficient. There are 7 x Loops on each Manifold/Floor. Each floor is approximately 80 sq.metres. I live on the Isle of Skye so can (and often do) experience many weather extremes. My entire house uses about 12,000 kw/h per year incl. cooking, washing machine and everything else. I built the house before the latest Building Regs. came into force (before air tightness/heat recovery etc). I've really enjoyed reading this particular forum, and I recognise some of the info posted. Since my system was installed, I've continually logged Heatpump usage v Electric Meter Usage and continue to do so. I have data for 7.5+ years. I'm a bit stuck though. Everything appears fine, but the Ground Loop Return GT11 is giving a weird reading. it is about 24c, approximately the temperature of the utility room where everything incl. washing machine and tumble dryer is installed. Incoming temp (Loop - GT10) is fine, probably starts cycle around 14c, reducing to 2c at end of cycle. Would love to find out where the Sensor for this (GT11) is installed, could it be a faulty sensor or something else
    • beardymarrow
    • By beardymarrow 19th Nov 17, 4:13 PM
    • 134 Posts
    • 117 Thanks
    beardymarrow
    I have been running a Heatpump for the last 7.5 years. It is an IVT HT Plus E7, External 280Ltr Tank (double shell) with Solar Thermal Pipework installed (Solar Thermal not completed yet). I also have a 100Ltr Buffer Tank, all Rooms individually controlled with Underfloor Heating on 2 x floors. In winter time I usually open all upstairs loops fully, hoping that the Temperature difference won't be too great for heat cycle, hoping that it'll make the system more efficient. There are 7 x Loops on each Manifold/Floor. Each floor is approximately 80 sq.metres. I live on the Isle of Skye so can (and often do) experience many weather extremes. My entire house uses about 12,000 kw/h per year incl. cooking, washing machine and everything else. I built the house before the latest Building Regs. came into force (before air tightness/heat recovery etc). I've really enjoyed reading this particular forum, and I recognise some of the info posted. Since my system was installed, I've continually logged Heatpump usage v Electric Meter Usage and continue to do so. I have data for 7.5+ years. I'm a bit stuck though. Everything appears fine, but the Ground Loop Return GT11 is giving a weird reading. it is about 24c, approximately the temperature of the utility room where everything incl. washing machine and tumble dryer is installed. Incoming temp (Loop - GT10) is fine, probably starts cycle around 14c, reducing to 2c at end of cycle. Would love to find out where the Sensor for this (GT11) is installed, could it be a faulty sensor or something else
    Originally posted by frslam
    Hi frslam,
    Sounds like you've got a great, well set-up system there.

    The GT11 sensor is under the insulation on the pipe that goes out of the GSHP to the ground loop (you'll see the thin black wire leading under the insulation). It's inside the GSHP. It'll be on the right hand side of the unit. On mine it's just cable tied on, so you could easily take it off and put it in a mug of ice water to test it. If it's faulty, should be an easy replacement. You could also swap GT10 and GT11 (the sensor themselves are the same) to check for definite it's the sensor itself, and not the main circuit board.

    A false high GT11 temp won't cause a problem as such, or any alarms, but you should get it sorted, as you'll not be able to detect any real problems (GT11 under limit, being the main one) so if you did get a real problem, you could cause some expensive damage before you knew about it.

    If you're a data freak (I am) you'll enjoy a StatLink (http://www.husdata.se/), as you can log all the sensors 24x7 and graph them etc. It's absolutely brilliant, and has helped me tweak settings to achieve better efficiency.
    • frslam
    • By frslam 19th Nov 17, 6:33 PM
    • 3 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    frslam
    Ht+ e7
    Many Thanks for that, another issue is the Hot Water temperature. I think I read somewhere the maximum default setting for Hot water was 54c or 55c. No matter what Temp. I have as setting, whether its the default 51c or whether i change that to 52c or 50c, it seems to want to heat the water to 54c. It's a strange one, maybe another sensor acting strangely. Was considering resetting to Factory default settings to see if that sorted anything, but I'm worried in case the language would also change to Swedish or something, then where would I go to change Language settings before re-programming. I am actually very happy with the System, living in a 160sqm house in the North of Scotland, Temperatures all around my house of a constant 21c and the system costs less than £800 per Year for all Heating and Hot Water needs. Again, many Thanks for the info.
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