Energy myth-busting: Is it cheaper to have heating on all day?

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  • I heard that the way you get charged for your gas bill is when the boiler is burning. For that reason whenever I have the heating on, i pop the hot water on as well.

    Does this incur extra charges or does it not make a difference?

    I have a house with 3 levels, and 6 bedrooms (only 4 lived in) . High pressurised water system (aka megaflow type system).

    My last bill came up to £750, which i thought was outrageous! now i'm wondering if what i heard is actually a myth?

    Can anyone help me out here please?

    Thanks

    A
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,036
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    1985ak47 wrote: »
    I heard that the way you get charged for your gas bill is when the boiler is burning. For that reason whenever I have the heating on, i pop the hot water on as well.

    Does this incur extra charges or does it not make a difference?

    I have a house with 3 levels, and 6 bedrooms (only 4 lived in) . High pressurised water system (aka megaflow type system).

    My last bill came up to £750, which i thought was outrageous! now i'm wondering if what i heard is actually a myth?

    Can anyone help me out here please?

    Thanks

    A

    Welcome to the forum.

    Essentially what you heard was wrong; you don't get owt for nowt.

    All your boiler does is heat water in two closed loops - one is through the radiators, and there is another for the hot water tank.(there are coils of pipe in your hot water tank) when you select hot water.

    If you are heating water in the hot water in the tank the boiler is simply having to heat extra water and it takes more energy(gas).

    It is like asking if I am boiling one pint of water in a saucepan, does it take any more gas to boil two pints?
  • 147718
    147718 Posts: 43 Forumite
    1985ak47 wrote: »
    I heard that the way you get charged for your gas bill is when the boiler is burning. For that reason whenever I have the heating on, i pop the hot water on as well.

    Does this incur extra charges or does it not make a difference?

    I have a house with 3 levels, and 6 bedrooms (only 4 lived in) . High pressurised water system (aka megaflow type system).

    My last bill came up to £750, which i thought was outrageous! now i'm wondering if what i heard is actually a myth?

    Can anyone help me out here please?

    Thanks

    A

    Hi It is certain that if your boiler is on it is costing money.
    I have a 4 bedroom house We are a retired couple so the heating is on 24/7 but programmed so that the temperature setting reflect the time of day and our requirements We are at home most of the time during winter months
    Regarding hot water We have large cold water tanks in the loft which feed into a tank in the airing cupboard
    The hot water is scheduled to come on for 1 hour from 7am( this gives sufficient hot water for showers etc) at which time the heating is raised from 18 during the night to 19/20 We have a traditional boiler not a combination boiler
    I hope this helps but you may have to refine your question which may attract more replies
    Best wishes
    147718
  • redux
    redux Posts: 22,976
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    edited 2 March 2013 at 9:55PM
    Yes, I think you are correct. I was thinking about the latent heat of evaporation. While this will cause more heat than electricity from say dehumidifiers (which release the latent heat of evaporation), a condensing dryer does the opposite. So the heat the dryer gives out is the electricity consumed minus the latent heat of evaporation.

    Thanks for pointing my error out.

    I don't see that latent heat comes into it.

    There is liquid water on the clothes at the start, and at the end water in the machine or down the drain.

    So it seems to me that although I don't understand the workings of the machine, overall some heat has been used to evaporate the water, and then recovered.
    __

    As for whether these are cheaper to run, and I don't know, at the moment it looks like a condenser machine may use less energy but some of them cost quite a bit more to buy

    It would depend on how that extra cost spread over the life of the machine. Saving 30 pence per cycle would take 500 cycles to pay for itself for a machine cost difference of £150.

    Likewise when looking for a new TV a year ago I wondered about fluorescent or LED backlighting. In the end I bought the former, as although it might be possible to save £10 of electricity a year with LED, at the time I could see £150 to £200 difference in price for the unit. If it was this year the LED backed might have been a bit cheaper by now if a refurbished one turned up.
  • 147718
    147718 Posts: 43 Forumite
    1985ak47 wrote: »
    I heard that the way you get charged for your gas bill is when the boiler is burning. For that reason whenever I have the heating on, i pop the hot water on as well.

    Does this incur extra charges or does it not make a difference?

    I have a house with 3 levels, and 6 bedrooms (only 4 lived in) . High pressurised water system (aka megaflow type system).

    My last bill came up to £750, which i thought was outrageous! now i'm wondering if what i heard is actually a myth?

    Can anyone help me out here please?

    Thanks

    A
    If it is of any help
    We have full gas central heating
    The cooking is with 4 gas hobs and electric ovens
    Our consumption for the last 12 months is Gas 15800Kwhs
    Electricity 3500 Kwhs
    Total 19300Kwhs
    From this you should be able to compare your costs
    147718
  • malc_b
    malc_b Posts: 1,081
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    Cardew wrote: »
    Welcome to the forum.

    Essentially what you heard was wrong; you don't get owt for nowt.

    All your boiler does is heat water in two closed loops - one is through the radiators, and there is another for the hot water tank.(there are coils of pipe in your hot water tank) when you select hot water.

    If you are heating water in the hot water in the tank the boiler is simply having to heat extra water and it takes more energy(gas).

    It is like asking if I am boiling one pint of water in a saucepan, does it take any more gas to boil two pints?

    This is assuming you have a hot water cylinder of course. There is a single feed coming from the boiler to a 2 way valve which has 3 options, heating, water, or both. If the feed to the cylinder is unrestricted then you'll probably find that if you have hot water on that steals all the water and the radiators don't get very warm. Also, each time the house thermostat cuts off the 2 way valve has to change which takes a while so the boiler will turn off, then on again a few minutes later. So, although you can use the boiler to heat water and the house you might find it works better to do it separately.
  • HappyMJ
    HappyMJ Posts: 21,115
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    malc_b wrote: »
    This is assuming you have a hot water cylinder of course. There is a single feed coming from the boiler to a 2 way valve which has 3 options, heating, water, or both. If the feed to the cylinder is unrestricted then you'll probably find that if you have hot water on that steals all the water and the radiators don't get very warm. Also, each time the house thermostat cuts off the 2 way valve has to change which takes a while so the boiler will turn off, then on again a few minutes later. So, although you can use the boiler to heat water and the house you might find it works better to do it separately.
    Takes a while? It takes...let me time it...3 seconds. Manual says maximum 10 seconds. Boiler and pump stays running throughout.
    :footie:
    :p Regular savers earn 6% interest (HSBC, First Direct, M&S) :p Loans cost 2.9% per year (Nationwide) = FREE money. :p
  • Cardew
    Cardew Posts: 29,036
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    malc_b wrote: »
    This is assuming you have a hot water cylinder of course.

    1985ak47 stated:
    I have a house with 3 levels, and 6 bedrooms (only 4 lived in) . High pressurised water system (aka megaflow type system).
  • malc_b
    malc_b Posts: 1,081
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    HappyMJ wrote: »
    Takes a while? It takes...let me time it...3 seconds. Manual says maximum 10 seconds. Boiler and pump stays running throughout.

    This will depend a bit on the valve. Better valves are stepper motor types but are slower. Poor ones have a spring return so in one state the motor fights the spring continually (and so have a shorter life).

    The valve should have micro switches to say what ports are open and if the CH is wired correctly then when the CH says enough heat the pump and boiler should stop on a CH+HW setting until the valve has moved to HW only and vice versa. Although, perhaps with a spring return valve these always have a minimum of a full 22mm bore and so you don't have to stop the pump and they save on micro switches too. But that does mean they overheat the HW or the CH and are relying on the valve moving so all valves should stop the boiler for some changes for safety. Stepper motor valves rotate only in one direction so they have a full closed position.

    I also find with my boiler and HW cylinder that the boiler heats the water so much the HW stat cuts out after a few minutes and then cuts back in when the water equalises. Hence HW+CH tends to chop and change between all 3 options. And especially for oil rather than gas short burns are inefficient.

    And Cadrew, I was just adding the note about a cylinder so that anyone reading your explanation and the extra detail I added would know it didn't apply to a combi. I wasn't implying you were giving incorrect info.
  • My grand daughter has just purchased a brand new house from Taylor Wimpy.
    The combi boiler fitted uses a remote, all in programmer/room stat.
    The programmer never switches the heating boiler off it actually sets the thermostat to 10C min or which ever higher temperature you specify.

    how does this fit in with the advice to turn the boiler off when not needed.
    Is this boiler so very in-efficient?????

    :T:T:T
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