Marriage Allowance
Comments
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They mention earning below the PA and having up to £5000 of savings interest; just like in MSE Sam's article.I have found this article (tax year 15-16) in my bookmarks list..
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/experts/article-3086308/Why-wait-Marriage-Allowance-tax-break-promised-Government.html0 -
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@Teddysmum
I can find nothing in the HMRC's own description of the processing algorithm for 2015/16 Income Tax which supports anything relating to the Starting Rate Allowance (the £5,000?) - or any savings allowance - when making the decision about whether an MAT application is acceptable.
You are a maths graduate, and so should be more than capable of checking this out. The document you want is:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/516175/2016-indi-taxnic-calc.zip
The zip file contains a single Word document. I suggest that once you've got your footing, you start at parameter c4.68 which is the first step in defining whether MAT is allowed. You'll see that the core decision is based on a test of several parameters - the key two being c4.55 and c4.64 - which, in turn, depend on other parameters etc. etc..
This document, by the way, is made public primarily for the benefit of commercial software companies who write software packages for accountants - and so should be the holy grail of how 2015/16 returns WILL be processed.
A chance to do some original research in your quest to get at the truth. Far more challenging - far more satisfying - than trying to sift for the needle of truth in the haystack of BS that is the internet.
Go for it!0 -
@Teddysmum
I can find nothing in the HMRC's own description of the processing algorithm for 2015/16 Income Tax which supports anything relating to the Starting Rate Allowance (the £5,000?) - or any savings allowance - when making the decision about whether an MAT application is acceptable.
You are a maths graduate, and so should be more than capable of checking this out. The document you want is:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/516175/2016-indi-taxnic-calc.zip
The zip file contains a single Word document. I suggest that once you've got your footing, you start at parameter c4.68 which is the first step in defining whether MAT is allowed. You'll see that the core decision is based on a test of several parameters - the key two being c4.55 and c4.64 - which, in turn, depend on other parameters etc. etc..
This document, by the way, is made public primarily for the benefit of commercial software companies who write software packages for accountants - and so should be the holy grail of how 2015/16 returns WILL be processed.
A chance to do some original research in your quest to get at the truth. Far more challenging - far more satisfying - than trying to sift for the needle of truth in the haystack of BS that is the internet.
Go for it!
I can't open the file, but my comment on the £5000 (should be £6000 now ? ) of savings interest not being counted for MAT eligibility is not based on internet information , but from the comment made by the HMRC person I spoke to, yesterday, who said he was consulting his documentation and then entering my hypothetical amounts into his data base calculator.
Being a mathematician, I prefer figures to pages of document, so would you be willing to call HMRC (very easy to get through at the moment) and use the same format as I did (post#578),perhaps with different amounts ?
eg Pension of £9500 and interest on savings of £3500.0 -
Just to be clear, my wife's income for 15/16 is approx £10k dividends, £6k pension, £1k interest and £2k other (HL loyalty bonuses).
The dividends are already taxed and this is non-reclaimable
If she still has £9540 PA available (£10,600 - £1,060) that should be sufficient to cover the £9k pension, interest and other income leaving no tax payable.
I think!
It sounds like toe best approach might be for her to register for Marriage Allowance first (i.e. transfer the £1,060 to me, then wait a couple of weeks before doing her Tax Return, then we wait a further couple of weeks before I do mine.
Just to report back:
In the end we decided to apply for MAT for 15/16 on my wife's tax return. I also included a note regarding the transfer on my return.
Returns were submitted on June 1st. Wife's rebate was received on June 8th and mine (MAT £212) was received today.
So it does work!0 -
I can't open the file[1], but my comment on the £5000 (should be £6000 now ? ) of savings interest[2] not being counted for MAT eligibility is not based on internet information[3] , but from the comment made by the HMRC person I spoke to, yesterday, who said he was consulting his documentation and then entering my hypothetical amounts into his data base calculator.
Being a mathematician, I prefer figures to pages of document[4], so would you be willing to call HMRC[5].
1. The document opens in MS Office, Open Office and Libre Office. The ZIP container opens in Windows. Come on, Teddysmum!
2. But who is to know the originator's logic and his use of "£5,000" (see below)?
3. Not based upon internet information? To quote your own post#556, the highlighted - in red - about the £5,000 was from the "HMRC website"
4. Do you feel comfortable about that response?
5. From long experience, a waste of time. HMRC's "outward-facing" staff are not well-informed.
Here's a guess about that £5,000. It is very important - and it is getting more important - to understand the difference between untaxed and taxed income - especially that which is taxed at 0% - and of nett adjusted income as an indicator of the tax-payers tax-rate status. I think it likely that whoever has started this "Personal Allowance plus £5,000" malarkey does not understand these fundamental concepts.0 -
1. The document opens in MS Office, Open Office and Libre Office. The ZIP container opens in Windows. Come on, Teddysmum!
2. But who is to know the originator's logic and his use of "£5,000" (see below)?
3. Not based upon internet information? To quote your own post#556, the highlighted - in red - about the £5,000 was from the "HMRC website"
4. Do you feel comfortable about that response?
5. From long experience, a waste of time. HMRC's "outward-facing" staff are not well-informed.
Here's a guess about that £5,000. It is very important - and it is getting more important - to understand the difference between untaxed and taxed income - especially that which is taxed at 0% - and of nett adjusted income as an indicator of the tax-payers tax-rate status. I think it likely that whoever has started this "Personal Allowance plus £5,000" malarkey does not understand these fundamental concepts.
1)I don't have any form of office on this laptop. It's just used for surfing, emails, purchases. Didn't know about zip.
2 and 3) I was referring to my latest post (only) pointing out that the HMRC person quoted the savings interest allowance (after consulting instructions for staff), so I did not take the information randomly from the internet, but from an HMRC rep. He said that , as no tax was due, the hypothetical person ( who is not actually me) was a non-taxpayer, so qualified for MAT. ( Just like MSE Sam who claims to be quoting from an official document).
4) Yes.I like numbers but hate pages and pages of officialdom. I do read a lot of non-boring things, though.
5) That's why I wanted someone else to ask the question. I would feel rather silly calling again and being put through to the same person.
No response, from Sam, to my post requesting that he confirm his source,so I have sent a 'report' message about that post, hoping they will refer it to Sam.0 -
I would feel rather silly calling again and being put through to the same person
With my professional hat on I have contacts within HMRC who understand how the tax system is supposed to work, but as Joe Public I have to go via HMRC's public help lines. Recently I asked them how much state pension I had received in 2015/16 - because their pre-population of the relevant field in the SA100 was clearly wrong. I made several calls; I always do to try to get a majority vote - and I've not yet landed on the same agent! In this case four calls produced five different figures. The only thing they all agreed upon was that the pre-populated value was wrong. Since then HMRC have changed the "help" associated with the entry - so they do refer up at times - but it is still very much "dunno, mate - you have a guess".
When I deal with HMRC I always think of Stanley Baldwin's quote about the press:
"power without responsibility, the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages".
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With my professional hat on I have contacts within HMRC who understand how the tax system is supposed to work, but as Joe Public I have to go via HMRC's public help lines. Recently I asked them how much state pension I had received in 2015/16 - because their pre-population of the relevant field in the SA100 was clearly wrong. I made several calls; I always do to try to get a majority vote - and I've not yet landed on the same agent! In this case four calls produced five different figures. The only thing they all agreed upon was that the pre-populated value was wrong. Since then HMRC have changed the "help" associated with the entry - so they do refer up at times - but it is still very much "dunno, mate - you have a guess".
When I deal with HMRC I always think of Stanley Baldwin's quote about the press:
"power without responsibility, the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages".
Perhaps we should consult Osborne, now he's out of a job......but perhaps not.0 -
I don't know if this is any help but the SA100 notes for the marriage allowance section of the 15/16 tax return state:
"Marriage Allowance
If you want to transfer part of your personal allowance, you must fill in boxes 1 to 5 and put your date of birth in box 1 on page TR1.
If your income from 6 April 2015 to 5 April 2016 was less than £10,600 (plus up to £5,000 in savings interest), you could benefit from transferring £1,060 of your personal allowance to your spouse or civil partner to reduce the amount of tax they pay. You could benefit as a couple if all of the following apply:
• you were married to, or in a civil partnership with, the same person for all or part of the tax year
• you were both born on or after 6 April 1935
• your partner doesn’t pay higher rate tax – generally that means their income was between £10,601 and £42,385
In most cases, if you both had income above your personal allowance you will not benefit from a transfer."
Whether the wording will be the same on the 16/17 return is anyone's guess.0
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