help with solar pv - south west london

Martyn1981 · 6 September 2016 at 6:21PM

django01 wrote: »

Thanks Martyn and Cardew... I am going to hold out for prices to come down under £5k.

Since the shading factor for my roof was low, I requested the vendor to swap out the solar edge system for a string. He offered a Growatt inverter and a discount of £350, taking the price down to £5600.

If like me, you're not a haggler, then your post is the perfect argument to use. Just explain that you're not trying to negotiate, it's simply not worth you considering at that price.

It's then up to them to decide if you are going to walk away (there's no rush, so walk away till the spring), and if they can do a deal at a lower price.

Perhaps suggest to interested installers that as there is no rush, you are happy to wait till they are quiet. If they have staff on the payroll, then any profit is better than no profit if they have 1 (or 2) down days.

Best of luck.

Mart.

Cardew · 6 September 2016 at 6:36PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

5. It's not all about the money, this is after all the Green & Ethical section of MSE.

Mart.

Then why are you advising the OP that the price quoted was too high.

Let us try again: Cardew says Black - Martyn says ???. Cardew says White - Martyn says ???

Nasty Cardew mustn't post in your forum! Rather pathetic!

Cardew · 6 September 2016 at 7:01PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Not true, as previously explained to you many times.

1. Yes there is the cost of capital (the 2% you mention) but the returns would earn this too, balancing out 2/3 of that part, plus the income streams are index linked, whereas inflation will mostly erode that interest (2% interest v's 2% inflation means the bank balance only treads water in real terms).

2. Do you still have the £5k or does the bank have it? To earn the interest, you can't touch it, if you touch it, such as buying something (a PV system perhaps) then you no longer have it. So having it and earning interest are two conflicting aspects when you think about it properly - if the bank enjoys the capital, you get the interest, if you enjoy the capital, there's no longer any interest.

3. You find a 20 year investment that returns the money after 13 years absurd - surely your neighbour would find you absurd if after 13 years they had the same bank balance as you, but also a PV system on the roof, and 7 more years of FiT income!

4. Having PV is fun, almost a hobby. Do you calculate return periods on expenditure for hobbies, holidays, new bathroom, new car?

5. It's not all about the money, this is after all the Green & Ethical section of MSE.

Originally Posted by Cardew View Post

The probability is that some repair(s) will be needed.

Is it?

Mart.

Just thought the whole post should be posted for all to see!

Martyn1981 · 7 September 2016 at 7:44AM

Cardew wrote: »

Then why are you advising the OP that the price quoted was too high.

Because the price quoted is too high.

[Cardew, after 6 years of your anti-PV and anti-FiT nonsense, do you really think your poor quality spin still works?]

You didn't answer my question about repairs. For many years you've stressed the cost of repairs, and are now suggesting more than 50% of systems will need repairs

The probability is that some repair(s) will be needed.

Has that been your experience? Do you have a link/reference?

Could you let me know please as I can only go on general information, such as the EST's advice:

Maintenance

Solar PV needs little maintenance – you'll just need to keep the panels relatively clean and make sure trees don't begin to overshadow them. In the UK panels that are tilted at 15° or more have the additional benefit of being cleaned by rainfall to ensure optimal performance. Debris is more likely to accumulate if you have ground mounted panels.

Once fitted, your installer should leave written details of any maintenance checks that you should carry out from time to time to ensure everything is working properly. This should include details of the main inverter fault signals and key trouble-shooting guidance. Ideally your installer should demonstrate this to you at the point of handover. Keeping a close eye on your system and the amount of electricity it’s generating (alongside the weather conditions) will familiarise you with what to expect and alert you to when something might be wrong.

The panels should last 25 years or more, but the inverter is likely to need replacing some time during this period, at a current cost of about £800. Consult with your installer for exact maintenance requirements before you commit to installing a solar PV system.

So aside from the inverter, which I mentioned earlier, and can be classed as wear and tear (like new tyres on a car), where is this repair expenditure?

Mart.

Martyn1981 · 7 September 2016 at 7:46AM

Cardew wrote: »

Just thought the whole post should be posted for all to see!

:think: It is, see reply #11.

Mart.

Cardew · 7 September 2016 at 8:47AM

You know your responses are rather silly, and anyone reading your posts will also know they are rather silly.

When attempting to discuss the long-term economics of a PV system to attempt to dismiss possible inverter replacement costing £x hundred as 'wear and tear' instead of 'repair' is exactly the sort of illogical defence of your beloved solar PV one might expect.

Incidentally, several people in this MSE section refer to inverter replacement under the generic term 'repair' e.g. Exiled tyke:

If the system does fail then it's a decision to repair or do without. Inverters are expected to last at least ten years and will cost a few hundred pounds to replace (costs may continue to come down as they have done in the past).

Far from correcting him, his contribution got your 'thanks'.

Don't bother to reply, or you will make yourself look even sillier.

Martyn1981 · 7 September 2016 at 9:09AM

Cardew wrote: »

When attempting to discuss the long-term economics of a PV system to attempt to dismiss possible inverter replacement costing £x hundred as 'wear and tear' instead of 'repair' is exactly the sort of illogical defence of your beloved solar PV one might expect.

Spinny, spin spin!

So, to be clear then, when you constantly refer to repairs, you are simply referring to the expected replacement of the inverter as it reaches its end of life.

Thank you for clarifying that point.

Mart.

Cardew · 7 September 2016 at 1:12PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Spinny, spin spin!

So, to be clear then, when you constantly refer to repairs, you are simply referring to the expected replacement of the inverter as it reaches its end of life.

Thank you for clarifying that point.

Mart.

I said you would make yourself look even sillier - and you proved my point.

'Clarifying' anything is not your strength!

This is what I stated in my post:

The probability is that some repair(s) will be needed.

I doubt if anyone on this forum - except you - would disagree with that statement. If an inverter breaks down after x years and has to be replaced, the diagnosis of the fault and replacement comes under the generic term 'repair'. Either way the cost is a factor to be considered in an economic appraisal.

It is also possible/probable that there might need to be repairs to other components of the PV system.

Martyn1981 · 7 September 2016 at 3:03PM

Cardew wrote: »

Either way the cost is a factor to be considered in an economic appraisal.

Which I did, earlier. So just to clarify then, you were simply repeating what I said?

You still haven't explained your investment advice though.

You stated that to choose a PV system and the money in the bank (after 13 years) was absurd, compared to just having the money in the bank. Do you still think that's sage advice?

To have an 'investment' that might simply return your capital expenditure in 13 years, let alone 20 years is absurd.

Or will you try to spin your way out of that too?

Let's be frank. You made thousands of posts from 2010 to 2014 (and some more since) explaining how PV wouldn't work, and the FiT scheme is immoral. You've made countless economic, mathematical and accounting errors. Many of those being my polite way of saying the information you posted was false.

We now know that you support nuclear, despite you refusing to admit it for many years (whilst simultaneously criticising subsidies for PV). New nuclear is already more expensive than PV, and will require subsidies (like PV), but without them being returned to consumers.

So everything you argued was either wrong, or spin, but now you can't get out of it, because you simply won't accept that PV is now a valid part of the UK generating mix.

So you can bounce around changing your descriptions of maintenance, repairs and inverters, but we both know it's a load of spin, because you simply can't admit that you called it wrong on PV, 6 years ago.

As I've said to you before, it's over. The technology works, the costs are fine and falling, and other than your obsession with PV not working at night (of course it doesn't), it's all going great.

Have fun.

Mart.

Cardew · 7 September 2016 at 5:17PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

because you simply can't admit that you called it wrong on PV, 6 years ago.

Mart.

I got it wrong? My objection was, and is, the stupid rates of subsidy paid to early adopters for sub 4kWp systems on top of the roof of houses dotted all over UK/ This for a technology that doesn't work at night, produces far less in winter, when demand is greater.

Someone called George Monbiot wrote a superb article on the folly of FIT, which is as true today as it was then; despite your pathetic attempts to discredit him by clutching at straws. Your obsession with solar is worrying.

Talking about getting it wrong, would you like me to cut and paste the page after page of your posts(in your inimitable style) of detailed explanations why solar farms are not the way forward?

Now you spend your time praising solar farms searching the internet and compulsively cutting and pasting from every Solar industry publication.

help with solar pv - south west london

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