Extra RAM to speed up PC

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  • NiftyDigits
    NiftyDigits Posts: 10,459 Forumite
    Don't even think of spending more than the £15 on the PC. I wouldn't even bother with a SSD without support for AHCI..
    Goodness knows why EdwardB is going on about an "Engineering problem". A start up time of twenty seconds as opposed to two minutes isn't just "feeling faster", it IS faster.

    The Netbook from which I am posting has an Atom N270 CPU and 1.5GB of RAM. Utilising an HDD, the thing was good for nothing. Sitting for minutes before I could do anything. Enabling AHCI and fitting a SSD, I'm online in 30 to 40 seconds from switching on. Cost me £25.
    The figures he uses for illustration are just crazy.

    The problem with the HiGrade is no AHCI support on a controller hub from 2005. For that reason alone, I wouldn't waste any more money on it.
  • EdwardB
    EdwardB Posts: 462
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    I always find it funny on MSE that whatver the subject each person has an an amount of money they think is worth throwing at a problem, even though it is a sunken cost.

    There is no wrong amount, I guess it reflects on our financial status.

    The OP gave a budget of £50, my level might be a bit lower, perhaps £30, so £15 seems tolerable.

    However, I am such a tightwad that I would then try overclocking which is free.

    Then down the road I MIGHT be persuaded to spend another £15 because I am "invested" but again, that £30 limit would kick in.

    Funny how we all have our own personal limit.
    Please be nice to all MoneySavers. That’s the forum motto. Remember, the prime aim is to help provide info and resources. If you don’t like someone, their situation, their question or feel they’re intruding on ‘your board’ then please bite the bullet and think of the bigger issue. :cool::)
  • GDB2222
    GDB2222 Posts: 24,453
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    EdwardB wrote: »
    I always find it funny on MSE that whatver the subject each person has an an amount of money they think is worth throwing at a problem, even though it is a sunken cost.

    There is no wrong amount, I guess it reflects on our financial status.

    The OP gave a budget of £50, my level might be a bit lower, perhaps £30, so £15 seems tolerable.

    However, I am such a tightwad that I would then try overclocking which is free.

    Then down the road I MIGHT be persuaded to spend another £15 because I am "invested" but again, that £30 limit would kick in.

    Funny how we all have our own personal limit.

    I wouldn't want to spend the money for an SSD on this computer, if that were a sunk cost. But, it isn't. The OP can take the SSD out and move it to any new computer he buys eventually.

    In particular, if he buy something cheap, that won't come with an SSD. So, he's going to need to spend that money sooner or later.
    No reliance should be placed on the above! Absolutely none, do you hear?
  • getmore4less
    getmore4less Posts: 46,882
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    I have an old(2008) dell outlet 530, E4500 2.2GHz with 3BG running Vista.

    A disc was going so needed changing anyway, cloned to SSD new lease of life, quiet and boots quick probably would be a bit quicker with AHCI for day to day stuff probably not notice.

    happy enough and when it finally gives up something serious can reuse the SSD.

    my strategy is cheap dell and keep it till it dies


    upgraded an old HP netbook to win 10 and upgraded that to 2Gig to fix the paging, that will be fine for a while yet.
  • EdwardB
    EdwardB Posts: 462
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    GDB2222 wrote: »
    I wouldn't want to spend the money for an SSD on this computer, if that were a sunk cost. But, it isn't. The OP can take the SSD out and move it to any new computer he buys eventually.

    In particular, if he buy something cheap, that won't come with an SSD. So, he's going to need to spend that money sooner or later.

    Valid points, all.

    I guess it comes down budget; with the £50 budget of which £15 has gone to RAM, if a not too shabby SSD can be obtained for £30 ish then it breaths some life into it while saving for a replacement.

    People comment that my Laptop is VERY responsive and it is, partly because of the way I have set it up and partly because I have loads of RAM, so it hardly has to swap. It cannot be overclocked, but I was able to get a bargain CPU upgrade off eBay some years ago for around £24.

    I do not have physical space for an SSD and could not get by on such low capacities, I did try a Hybrid SSD a few years ago on a desktop and was pleased with the improved performance. I could get a 1TB Hybrid for my laptop but for now I can't justify the cost. Even if I could use it in the future I can hardly buy a new laptop with no hard disk, so to that extent it sort of IS a sunken cost.
    Please be nice to all MoneySavers. That’s the forum motto. Remember, the prime aim is to help provide info and resources. If you don’t like someone, their situation, their question or feel they’re intruding on ‘your board’ then please bite the bullet and think of the bigger issue. :cool::)
  • toshi
    toshi Posts: 308
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    edited 14 March 2017 at 11:42PM
    GDB2222 wrote: »

    However, 2GB is probably a bit on the low side.

    2 questions:
    Do you have an SSD?
    If you get a new PC one day would you put it together yourself?

    I ask because buying an SSD might be the smart upgrade, but even more so if you later take it out and use it in a new PC.

    I agree with this strongly! Your computer may be infected and dirty but virus scanning and CCleaner run drastically faster with SSD than with hard disk.

    https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/P5QPLAM/specifications/

    Your motherboard uses Intel® Core™2, hopefully you use a decent dual core based CPU.


    ************************** comment added start


    Processor Pentium(R) Dual-Core CPU E5400 @ 2.70GHz, 2700 Mhz, 2 Core(s), 2 Logical Processor(s)
    s

    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Pentium+E5400+%40+2.70GHz

    You have got a fairly decent CPU, actually faster than mine one lol.

    GDB2222 wrote: »
    Available Physical Memory 215 MB

    Is it possible to run windows with 215MB? This should be very unhealthy and unstable.(Even you have 4GB, your computer is dead slow! NO IMPROVEMENT!) Very dirty typical windows environment. Firstly you need to disable all non essential (non Microsoft and antivirus) startup programs

    How to Disable Startup Programs in Windows 10

    http://www.isunshare.com/windows-10/disable-startup-programs-in-windows-10.html

    This is the first thing you need to do, at the moment, your windows isn't just slow but also almost unusable. (If you add 2-6GB, your computer will be usable but still very slow.)

    ************************** comment added ends

    The best cost effective option to use the existing devices is to get a SSD.

    2GB memory with SSD is significantly faster than 8GB memory with Hard disk

    This is a 2008 MAC notebook performance test in real environment. (As I tested below, Windows gets the same results.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn6zxoh3oK4

    I have tested this with Windows 7 by myself. My 2008 notebook has a 500MB free memory out of 2GB (2000MB) With a SSD, your computer will still run BLAZINGLY FAST until no memory left (i.e. until Windows freezes). If you use a hard disk, you cannot make this happen, Why? Because the hard disk is too slow to use all of your memory. (i.e. you give up running more application because a hard disk is too slow.)

    Please also note Powerful CPU, additional Memory will NOT make a sluggish hard disk faster. (Yes, once data is transferred from a hard disk to memory, memory cache will kick in. But actual slowness comes from the initial slow data transfer from a hard disk to CPU/memory.

    I am using DualCore based desktop (2008) with a SSD for my daily work very comfortably.

    I have replaced a hard disk with a SSD 3years ago, I intended to replace motherboard as well later but it is too comfortable to do extra work. Seeing is Believing.

    Some cheap end brand new windows 10 computer uses far less powerful CPU than 2008 dual core CPU. For general computing, with a SSD, you will be amazed how powerful your computer is !

    Happy computing :)


    P.S. Windows needs 4GB for comfortable use, (My 2008 SSD Desktop has 6GB with no swap-file but rarely used more than 4GB). Linux needs 2GB (comment added)
  • were
    were Posts: 632 Forumite
    edited 14 March 2017 at 3:47PM
    my i7 quad core 12Gb ram laptop ssd drive is bench marked (by me) as 40x faster the Mag disk on the same system. It takes me about 30 seconds to boot and load all the crud,

    So if I was to boot off Mag disk, calculation wise it should take me 20 mins, but we all know it is going to take less than 5 mins:) and bench marks can be misleading.

    Apparently it all depends on Southbridge, rather than cpu type, speed, ram and OS, Somewhere around ICH7-10 is the chips sweet spot, however other even older version can be also AHCI friendly
    AHCI is built into chipsets with the following controller hubs:
    * Intel? 82801IR/IO Controller Hub (ICH9R) - RAID and AHCI
    * Intel? 82801HEM I/O Controller Hub (ICH8M-E) - RAID and AHCI
    * Intel? 82801HBM I/O Controller Hub (ICH8M) - AHCI only
    * Intel? 82801HR/HH/HO I/O Controller Hub (ICH8R) - RAID and AHCI
    * Intel? 631xESB/632xESB I/O Controller Hub - RAID and AHCI
    * Intel? 82801GHM I/O Controller Hub (ICH7MDH) - RAID only
    * Intel? 82801GBM I/O Controller Hub (ICH7M) - AHCI only
    * Intel? 82801GR I/O Controller Hub (ICH7R) - RAID and AHCI
    * Intel? 82801GH I/O Controller Hub (ICH7DH) - RAID and AHCI
    * Intel? 82801FR I/O Controller Hub (ICH6R) - RAID and AHCI
    * Intel? 82801FBM I/O Controller Hub (ICH6M) - AHCI only

    The result is that the basic ICH7 not that great, but some may get working, on others ssd drives are not tolerated by the system, non will reach the potential of AHCI machines, and at this age and sata version the bus possibly has limitations too.

    If anyone with this chipset wants to take a punt on SSD, Amazon is probably the best place to purchase, as you can return it often hassle free. Unfortunately I purchased an SSD for my friend who had a fast AMD x4 and the ssd was the exact same speed as the ide - you just can't polish a turd.
  • EdwardB
    EdwardB Posts: 462
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    edited 14 March 2017 at 4:33PM
    toshi wrote: »
    I agree.......Linux needs 2GB (comment added)

    I think the thread established that the issue was very low RAM and budget was £50, helpful post of £15 for upgrade.

    We then had the "SSD solves the worlds problems brigade":) come in with fair proposal to get a second hand SSD as it might have a use in the future.

    Funny how every problem with a computer always seem to have the same answers; so now it is a virus, then tuning startup and of course Linux is wonderful but not everyone's cup of tea, have we missed anything?

    Feels a bit like Bleeping Computer, whatever question is asked they throw the same 13,456 tests to carry out before you go any further.

    I am starting to pity the OP.

    Some good points about old kit, but it does use way more energy,

    Funny someone asked me to compare their old Core2 chip vs todays low end dual and quad core chips, Geekbench4 seemed to suggest old chips were faster on multi core. However, my real world use did not really reflect that so guessing still using mostly single core.

    ocsbYuX.png

    Strange because CPUmark says newer are slower at single thread

    Single Thread Rating 547 1092 2105
    CPU Mark 1871 1598 5463

    I think the power of modern low end CPU's is great for the money, but would be fun to overclock it based on the experience of link I posted above.
    Please be nice to all MoneySavers. That’s the forum motto. Remember, the prime aim is to help provide info and resources. If you don’t like someone, their situation, their question or feel they’re intruding on ‘your board’ then please bite the bullet and think of the bigger issue. :cool::)
  • EdwardB
    EdwardB Posts: 462
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    edited 14 March 2017 at 4:47PM
    were wrote: »
    my i7 quad core 12Gb ram laptop ssd drive is bench marked (by me) as 40x faster the Mag disk on the same system. It takes me about 30 seconds to boot and load all the crud,

    So if I was to boot off Mag disk, calculation wise it should take me 20 mins, but we all know it is going to take less than 5 mins:) and bench marks can be misleading.

    Apparently it all depends on Southbridge, rather than cpu type, speed, ram and OS, Somewhere around ICH7-10 is the chips sweet spot, however other even older version can be also AHCI friendly

    If anyone with this chipset wants to take a punt on SSD, Amazon is probably the best place to purchase, as you can return it often hassle free. Unfortunately I purchased an SSD for my friend who had a fast AMD x4 and the ssd was the exact same speed as the ide - you just can't polish a turd.

    I was going to mention about compatibility

    My approach would be to look at the SSD's that used to be offered for this motherboard but are now no longer sold (they only sell one new and it is £93)

    http://uk.crucial.com/gbr/en/compatible-upgrade-for/ASUS/p5qpl-am

    Then I would look on eBay for that old one 2nd hand.

    The BX200 start at £62 which would blow the £50 total budget but these MX200's are starting at £30 odd

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192128245894

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311822080573?

    So bargain zone would be £40 as lowest they sell for recently has been £56

    http://ebay.eu/2n6l7V0

    I am such a tightwad!!
    Please be nice to all MoneySavers. That’s the forum motto. Remember, the prime aim is to help provide info and resources. If you don’t like someone, their situation, their question or feel they’re intruding on ‘your board’ then please bite the bullet and think of the bigger issue. :cool::)
  • were
    were Posts: 632 Forumite
    Unsure about purchasing a second had SSD, unless really, really cheap. We had some new 400G SSDseagates at work, cost £1700, in under a week it was dead, so got another, and less than a week later... after the third one, it became a battle for account managers. Supplies are quoting 2 years, but only really used for booting, so majority have lasted longer.

    Silicon is quick, but the life is not great, and it does not deteriorate in a way that gives a warning, it just dies. I've also avoided hybrid drives at all cost, as they have the worst properties of both, and just a world of pain waiting to be unleashed.
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