Is post-school education good value for money?

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  • Mrs_Ryan
    Mrs_Ryan Posts: 11,832 Forumite
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    If you see my signature you will see that I am a very proud graduate of the Open University. I am so grateful to the OU for giving me the break I badly needed. I went to university at 18 and learned very little. The course I was on was a waste of time. I changed courses after realising that in one lecture due to having an A Level in the subject I was asking questions that the lecturer couldn't answer!

    When I became disabled a few years ago and had to give up nursing I wondered what to do next. It was the OU who gave me the opportunity to study a subject I had always loved (English) I had fantastic help and support- at one point I wrote one assignment on an old tablet lying on my side on the sofa because I was too poorly to even lift my head and my laptop was broken. The assignment wasn't great but the OU tutors and staff understood and praised me for even trying. Yet at a brick uni- I kid you not- I was told that the condition I had which developed into cancer couldn't be taken into consideration for an appeal against a failed exam because it was a specific female condition and they could only consider conditions that an 'average student' male or female- could suffer from. So had it been say something like diabetes or epilepsy and the cancer it lead to something like leukaemia that would have been okay but they can't consider medical conditions specific to one gender! (The student union helped me to appeal against this on the grounds of gender discrimination and I won but I was too unwell to take up my place on the course again) They couldn't care less about trying to support me whereas the Support I had from the OU was amazing.

    Yet the government seem to be doing their utmost to decimate this fantastic institution. Thanks to their determination to try and put people off part time study by cutting the funds allocated which has a knock on effect to institutions like the OU. I would make a plea to the government to please stop doing this and to provide more funding. Give distance learning part time students equal entitlements to maintainance loans etc. The costs of distance learning can add up- for instance the tutorials for my last module were in Leeds. I live in Leicestershire. I had to pay for travel, accommodation etc- and didn't get a penny of help. All because I'm 'part time' I studied at full time intensity and had far more hours of study than a lot of brick uni students I knew but because I was 'studying at a lower intensity' than a brick uni student in my subject I don't deserve help!

    There are many reasons that people study by distance learning. This should be encouraged- not discouraged as the government are so hell bent on doing. There should be equal recognition- not less. I am going to a brick uni to study for my Masters and when I spoke to the Professor in charge of the course she said that she always welcomed OU students on the course because of their excellent independent study skills and knowledge.

    I am proud to be a graduate of the OU and I will happily tell anyone who asks me at my new university. That's the overriding thing about my post school education and something I feel so strongly about- the unfair treatment of part time specifically distance learning students.
    *The RK and FF fan club* #Family*Don’t Be Bitter- Glitter!* #LotsOfLove ‘Darling you’re my blood, you have my heartbeat’ Dad 20.02.20
  • Former_MSE_Andrea
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    Hi everyone.

    We've moved this over from the MoneySavers' Arms. It would be great to hear your thoughts.

    Andrea :)
    Could you do with a Money Makeover?


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  • Malthusian
    Malthusian Posts: 10,938 Forumite
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    1. Yes. Developing my mathematics, analysis and research skills was crucial to my career.

    2. Qualified yes. Despite the above, I strongly suspect I would be earning the same as I do now if I hadn't gone to university. But three years of student life was undeniably more fun than going straight into the 9-5, and gave me a chance to meet people and try things that I wouldn't have done in working life.

    3. Do to the universities what Henry VIII did to the monasteries. 80% of them should be appropriated by the Government without compensation, razed to the ground, the land sold off to build luxury flats, and the proceeds used to write off the debts of every young person who has been conned into getting a useless Mickey Mouse degree.

    (This would not affect any university that genuinely gives its students value, as anyone would be free to outbid the property developers and continue to run the university as a university, if it is worth more than the land it sits on.)

    University grants and student loans would be abolished and instead every young person in the UK would be given £30,000 at age 18 which could be spent on either a) university tuition fees b) a house deposit or c) added to their pension fund.
  • Spendless
    Spendless Posts: 24,150 Forumite
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    You asked about post school. There's been a lot of posts about Universities. I wanted to say something about FE colleges.

    My son has been at one for the past year, on a 2 year course. My son started when he was 16 so the course is free. One of his friends though, went to sixth form for a year, then did an apprenticeship before signing up for this 2 year course and has discovered he needs to pay for his second year, because he has already had 3 years worth of FE funding. The college didn't make that clear to him on enrolling and I'm surprised that an apprenticeship counts as a year, since the apprentice is paid and I was under the belief that if your child took one you would no longer be entitled to CB or CTC.

    Also, for years I have had anecdotes from friends about their child not being allowed into yr13 at sixth form, due to not got enough exam results at the end of yr12. A case like this recently hit the media as the parents of the students concerned were about to challenge this desicion in court and the school backed down and let them in. I'd say this practise needs looking at and also options for pupils who sit their GCSE exams and don't get the results needed for their required place, by which time many places have passed their deadline for applying to.
  • BethP
    BethP Posts: 47 Forumite
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    Post 16 Education provision is good in Merseyside for most subject areas, imo. (I'm a careers guidance officer.) One area that needs to be improved: practical careers. Bricklaying has inadequate provision for practical hands-on bricklaying. Long waiting lists for people wanting to train / retrain as plumbers.

    Astonishing that, even now, decades following their introduction, so many post-16 learners DO NOT KNOW they can join a Basic Skills English / Maths / ICT / ESOL class for FREE at any time of year?? Learners do not need to wait for September, January or April enrolment. Sadly, basic skills are lacking in many people thus they have a barrier to personal development / employment.
  • BethP
    BethP Posts: 47 Forumite
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    For positive post 16 education outcomes I believe we need pupils to do more public speaking + current affairs in junior school so as to build confidence and increase general knowledge. (Roger Philips from Radio Merseyside visited my son's junior school class most weeks. Out of 30 boys + girls, just two 8yo boys could answer his questions.) Watching the news on tv / internet or listening to the radio plus reading a newspaper are very useful tools for everyone.

    I wish there was less emphasis on going to University. University is not for everyone. Some are good with their hands; others perfect for the caring professions. GCSEs are sufficient for many career paths. Kids at 15yo do not always know what they want to do for work. Requiring a Degree to become a nurse is, imo, a mistake. There are thousands of kind, caring, dedicated people who are now being denied the opportunity to become nurses simply because they are unable to obtain a Degree. Why not open nursing up once more and let the Degree holders fast track up their career ladder.
  • Kayalana99
    Kayalana99 Posts: 3,626 Forumite
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    It's really interesting in this thread that, whilst I've not read every post, most people who actually have a degree say it worked well for them. The ones disagreeing it never actually went to Uni.

    As someone currently doing a OU degree, it's really interesting to hear people's experiences.
    People don't know what they want until you show them.
  • WibblyGirly
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    For myself personally I think my further education has benefitted me. I worked in minimum wage retail for years before I thought 'Is this it? Is this all?' I decided to go to uni just to broaden my options initially, after all, I couldn't end up worse off afterwards. Figured out in 2nd year a career path and I'm about to start a Masters that will lead to employment in a specific career. I'll be earning double or even triple what I was getting from retail and I'll actually enjoy it.

    I think the key for me was not rushing straight into further education, but waiting to figure out a course I wanted to do.
  • swanie007
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    I did PGSE to become a teacher on the direct scheme and it equipped me with the skills I needed but I don't think it was worth £9000 and certainly not the added interest on my loan. I think the government needs to reduce the interest rate to the bank of England rate and that will reduce student debt. 6% is ridiculous and not necessary.
  • perfecthost
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    In my new book, Organisational Myths, due for publication via Bookboon in autumn 2017, I advocate five key shifts in education (and hence in financing of education):
    1) from academic to technical/vocational CONTENT;
    2) from academic to skills focussed, practical APPROACH;
    3) from (educational) establishment to workplace;
    4) from classroom to on the job;
    5) from qualifications and exams to skills assessment and skills passport.
    See also: SKILLdoctors, position paper.
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