Anyone used Rointe heaters?

GrahamIW wrote: »

Hi,

So your thoughts on this: As I am on E7 would I be better to update the existing with new storage heaters with the duoheat or with an added convection heater. Both sound great but the cost of a storage heater with convection is much more than a standard unit. so my reasoning is that I might as well buy just a convector heater and plug it in as an addition to the old storage heaters and save money.

Or just buy new storage heaters that might retain the heat better than the old style what do you think?

Got no gas just electric.

Problem with all electric is your choices are limited. I'm all electric too.

I replaced 8 old storage heaters about 20 years ago (I keep describing mine as 'modern' ones, but I suppose they are now aging a little - although they are slimline and still look new, and wouldn';t be surprised if the same models are still being sold. It was an easy decision for me at the time since I worked in the industry and I could buy at cost priceand, as I found out, stoage heaters are/were one of the most marked up products the shops sold (hence it was a big saving over the retail cost).

I can assure you that mo9dern ones are a big leap over the thick old almost totally uncontrollable old things still knocking around. They will never approach the convenience of gas, so best to keep expectations within reason. Also, they used to be sized to maintain something like 20C when 0C outside - so don't expect much heat left in them at 12 at night if it's below zero outside (in fact when its cold, you can run out earlier than that). But by and large, they give acceptable heating for a reasonable running cost (for the biggest 3.5ish kw, around a quid per night when on max). The Big saving over other heating methods is the zero maintainance (that is zero cost and zero hassle waiting for engineers and no chance of one coming along an condeming your system so you can't use it!, and no frozen condensaion pipes which affected many last winter|).

You could also look at air to air heatpumps as an alternative in some rooms, but they're more expensive to buy but give you cheap heat on demand. Someone caaled 'Steve' wrote extensively about his system on these boardsand also on youtube, but I can no longer find his posts. (anyone got a link?)

dickllewellyn wrote: »

I'm not selling anything. I don't believe the Rointe hype either, but I do want to point out how different elements (air, oil) have different specific heat capacities and will retain heat differently. I also wanted to retort in the same manner as some other posters have been treated infering stupidity.

Thing is !!!!!!, yes some materials do hold heat for longer, but those materials also take longer to absorb the heat in the first place. It really is indisputable; For every kWh you put in you will get a kWh out. No more, no less.

I'm not a scientist but I am a chartered surveyor and I do understand heat loss (and gain). Buildings with high thermal mass (like those in the old days) take longer to heat up but then continue to release heat after the heating goes off. Most people think this is more efficient but that's not necessarily the case. Most modern buildings have low thermal mass - which means they heat up quicker but also cool down quicker once the heating goes off. This makes it more controllable and should mean you get heat only when you need it - which in theory makes it more efficient.

oldmanbrown wrote: »

Thank you, in particular Cardew for this information.
I am an electrician and I have been looking into electric heating so that I can give my customers an informed and cost effective solution.

I was, I have to say, quite impressed with the Rointe heaters, we have been lucky enough to get a demo model. The system is well thought out and they do work very well.

However I totally understand what you have been saying about the principles of electric heating and that the Rointe promotional material is very misleading.

Does anyone have any thoughts on infra-red heating? In particular I mean the Redwell brand. Again I suspect that their promotional material is misleading. They claim that their heaters can help to significantly reduce drafts due to convection currents not being such an issue? Is this true, because if it is then this could be beneficial in some circumstances? Also what are your thoughts on their claims that they can have health benefits:

"Infrared heat increases circulation in the skin, stimulates the metabolism,
is very hygienic due to cleaner air and has a detoxifying effect."

Comments very much appreciated.

Welcome to the forum.

Like most of these websites it implies to the layman that they produce more heat for ££££s than other electrical heaters - and they obviously don't.

Statements like this are both misleading for gas and oil and incorrect for storage heaters:

Infrared heating is up to 70% more energy-efficient than oil-fired boilers, gas heaters and electric night storage heaters.

Infrared heating is 100% efficient like all electrical heating.

Gas and oil boilers can be up to 90%+ efficient. It would be inconceivable IMO that a boiler would be in operation at 30% efficiency - an average for all boilers in use would generally be 70% or so. In any case gas costs about one third, and oil half, of the price of electricity. So they will always produce more heat fopr your bucks than infra-red heating.

They are not more energy-efficient than storage heaters as both are 100% efficient. That statement is a 'play on words' as storage heater can produce heat that is wasted.

The use of the phrase 'up to' is a get out clause. A claim of 'up to 70% more efficient' covers something that is 0.1% more efficient.

Infrared heaters work by directing a 'beam' of heat at a person or object and not heating the air in the room directly.

The best analogy is that infrared heating is like a desk reading lamp or a narrow beam spotlight that shines light where it is needed. They are widely used for say someone working at a bench in an unheated garage. They are warm but the garage is not.

It is down to personal choice on how you wish to heat your property. Someone living on their own might find an infra red heater acceptable. However it that were the case why not buy a £50 infrared heater like these

http://www.aquahot.co.uk/index.php?action=store&ctg=42&show_ctg=57

Redwell make this statement re pricing

<H2>Pricing


There is a limit to the pricing information we can put on our website without making it appear very complicated!

</H2> That implies they will be expensive!! They give one example of a small 350w heater for £350 + VAT and carriage.

In the link above the 1,200w heater from Dimplex(an excellent manufacturer) is £57 delivered including VAT.

I rest my case!

welda wrote: »

Another good clear simplistic reply re: infra-red heating, Cardew.

Makes you wonder what the advertising standards agency are doing when one reads this mis-leading guff??

Regards.............

It is the 'weasle wording' that makes it difficult to pin down these companies.

If you send me £1,000 I will invest it for you and after 1 year you could get a return of 'up to' 120%.

I can argue that it has been possible in the past - and might be in the future - for an investment to grow by 120% - albeit not often!!!

Is the above illegal or a breach of ASA rules? I doubt it!

welda wrote: »

......
Heat is heat, physics is physics, you would think the authorities would see this and, do something about this, but they probably have a vested interest? ....

Rointe had a judgement against it from the Advertising Standards Authority - so it then got its copywriters to rewrite its blurb - with words that still mislead (as this thread clearly shows!). Redwell Radiators too have misleading text. Economical Radiator Company ...

The ASA needs a complaint - just one will do - for it to act. It's very simple to complain and you can do it on-line, or by post or phone. If the ASA thinks the complaint has merit then it investigates, sends a draft to the advertiser complained about for it to comment, then issues its formal adjudication, which is published. Unfortunately if the advertiser agrees voluntarily to withdraw the advert no formal adjudication is published and the only record is the firm's name in a list of complaints informally resolved.

http://www.asa.org.uk/

If you read the advertising codes you'll see that ads mustn't be misleading ... and this is where the ads for the amazing economical heaters fall down.

from http://www.asa.org.uk/Advertising-Codes.aspx :

The ASA administers the rules in the spirit as well as the letter, making it almost impossible for advertisers to find loopholes or ‘get off on a technicality’. This common sense approach takes into account the nature of the product being advertised, the media used, and the audience being targeted.

Unfortunately firms like Rointe get round this with cleverly redrafted text and need to be taken to the ASA again. And so it goes on..

The ASA also monitors ads for breaches of the codes.