storage heaters/electric central heating or gas?

seeking2save wrote: »

No subjective opinions - I've been poring over spreadsheets the last few days.

According to my calculations, storage heaters are more expensive simply because they use more kWh of electricity (particularly on Economy 10), whereas you can control the hours that non-storage heaters are on.

My calculations in summary, monthly electricity costs,using the heater kW sizes recommended by the manufacturers plus an immersion heater @3kW (and Southern Electric green energy tariffs):

3 Dimplex storage heaters (total 5.95 kW)+ one panel heater (1.5kW) + Economy 7:
Off-peak kWh = 1444 * £0.0408
Peak kWh = 182 * £0.096
Service charge = £5.50
Total = £82

3 Dimplex storage heaters + one panel heater + Economy 10:
Off-peak kWh = 2092 * £0.0508
Peak kWh = 75 * £0.0869
Service charge = £4.67
Total = £117

4 Kalirel heaters (total 4.25kW) + Economy 10:
Off-peak kWh = 545 * £0.0508
Peak kWh = 399 * £0.0869
Service charge = £4.67
Total = £67

Being new to all this electric heating stuff, I'd welcome second opinions on the calculations - I don't want to spend loads of money on a new heating system, only to find my calculations were wrong!

I'd prefer modern heaters over bar fires / simple fan heaters (a) because the latter don't have thermostats (at least they didn't in my grandmother's day), (b) modern heaters look better and (c) bar fires are a safety hazard.

I don't wish to be unkind but the principal assumption(in bold) on which you base your calculations(as opposed to your arithmetic) is simply unsupportable.

The first thing is that for all practical purposes all forms of electical heating are 100% efficient in turning electrical power into heat.

You have used 3 different sets of figures for power consumed. 1,626kWh, 2,167kWh & 944kWh(for the Kalirel).

They will produce heat in exactly that ratio i.e. 1626:2167:944

There is clearly a factor of any storage heater 'leaking' heat during the day but using manufacturers figures to calculate that a Kalirel heater can produce - from 944kWh - useful heat equal to 2,167kWh from an E10 storage heater system is again simply unsupportable.

Incidentally I have not seen a fan heater produced in the last 20 years that doesn't have a thermostat - and produces instant heat. Or, if you are set on radiators using peak electricity, simple oil filled radiators will cost a fraction of the installation costs.

if you need some independant advice, why not contact the Energy Saving Trust?

samtheman1k wrote: »

Have any of you guys looked at the Gledhill Electramate?

http://www.gledhill.net/water-storage/ws-index.htm

This is basically a wet central thermal store that heats up using E10. This is then plumbed into a standard radiator central heating system. During the off peak tariffs, the thermal store is heated up and during the on peak times, the hot water is distributed throughout the normal radiators.

I think this would be more efficient than storage heaters as the hot water is stored in an insulated tank, and thus will stay warm throughout the day (when you are at work), ready for use in the evening.

They obviously has the cost of installing radiators and pipes, but may be an option for those off the mains gas.

There have been a number of posts on the pros and cons of 'wet' storage heating systems, with some interesting and informed contributions especially from 'Peat'

From what I have gathered these have advantages over the conventional storage heating systems, but as you indicate are considerably more expensive to install.

See http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=73072&highlight=wet+storage

Also do a search for 'wet storage'

consider a heat pump, I have a couple of these which are aircon in reverse, you refrigerate the air outside and pump the residual heat indoors. they are extremely efficient converting 1kw of electricity into up to 5kw of heat. these are are used in scandinavia, canada and new zealand, the UK as usual is slow on the uptake of new technology. although the festival hall in london had a water source system using the thames when it first opened in the 1950's. this site explains better than i can how they work. prices have dropped recently with imports from china.http://www.bdt.co.nz/comfortmaster/info_buyer.asp

here is a uk supplier but shop around or haggle. http://www.iceenergy.co.uk/

Chrislincs wrote: »

Hi - new to site . Have been worrying that when we come to sell in 2 yrs. our storage rads will put folk off, so investigating alternatives, in a gasless zone. From this and other threads online it would seem that electric CH is expensive to install and run, not to mention the disruption to every room. That would go for any wet system, I guess.
New to me is E10. The hours seem great, although logic tells me more hours costs more dough. Maybe Cardew, or someone else in the know, could tell me if the 3xday heating would mean being able to run on a lower input yet maintain level temp. thereby keeping costs down. E10 has the advantage that many other high use facillities like showers, irons, even the oven could be run at lower cost if timed right, presumably? We already run the washer, dishwasher, etc. at night, but the thought of using them in the afternoon without counting the cost when I have the grandchildren staying is great.
Yes Punamulta, heat pumps are ideal - but prohibitively priced at the moment, which is a shame cos I'm a greenie through and through.
Ours is a sprawling 30's detached bungalow, which I have insulated, double glazed and got solar water heated, but is still failrly expensive to run. Any tips would be much appreciated. In its favour I support SHs for the fact that I have had some for over 30 yrs, and never needed a service, replacement boiler, had leaks, air locks or any other problems, so probably they are even stevens on overall running.

Welcome to the forum.

You are quite right about the prohibitive cost of installing Ground Source Heat Pumps. In any case these are better suited to under-floor heating as the water is not normally hot enough for conventional radiators.(or get much larger radiators)

I assume penamulta is talking about air source heat pumps which have come down in price lot recently. However these are small units that are more suited for heating a room; and conventional wisdom is they are better suited for warmer climates than UK. In any case getting 5kWh heat output for 1kWh input would be exceptional; 3 to 4 times would be a more realistic figure.

As for E10 you would use it in exactly the same way as E7 but have the additional 3 hours during the day to top up; and of course take the opportunity to use the heavy consumption appliances(dryer etc) in that 3 hour period.

I understand that some utility companies seem reluctant to offer E10; presumably as it needs a new meter. Someone did post on here that they cannot refuse to supply E10 although I have no idea if that is true. In any case they could always charge you 20p/kWh to deter you!!

If you do go to E10 you will need to do quite a bit of research ‘manually’ as the on-line comparison networks don’t cover E10 – might be worth ringing them.

Some while ago someone posted their E10 prices on this forum and all of the prices – including the 7 hour period and daytime rates were higher. If you look at Post #55 in the figures he uses E10 is 1p/kWh more expensive(for all 10 hours) than the E7 rate.

So you would need to make assumptions on how much electricity you woul use in the extra 3 hours and do your ‘sums’ carefully. No such thing as a free lunch?

P.S.
You are also quite right about the 'hidden' saving of SH not needing servicing every year.