Does anyone here have an ideological objection to Solar?

Energetic_2 · 27 November 2012 at 2:59PM

EDIT: This thread has been hijacked by discussions about the administration of the FiT and its efficiency in encouraging renewables. It's no longer all that helpful for a consumer trying to make a decision on whether renewable technologies are suitable for their home or business. I have started another thread: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4326665 which attempts to cover what i originally intended for this one.

Hi Money Savers,

I am a renewable energy installer. I want to stress that i am not here to try to get work directly or promote my company. I'm a bit frustrated that the national media has become so anti renewables so I am here to answer questions, promote renewable technologies generally and hopefully dispel myths that renewables are 'so 2011'...

Lots of people, including many people who had PV installed last year believe solar has been killed off by the current feed in tariff. I am here to tell you that this is NOT THE CASE. Returns are still in the 10 - 15% region as installation prices have dropped significantly. We've recently requoted a customer from early summer last year and the returns are better now than they were then.

I am happy to answer any questions about any renewable technologies or power management systems that can be used in conjunction with them. If i do not know the answer i will say so...

Cardew · 27 November 2012 at 6:39PM

Can you give your figures and assumptions for the 10-15% please.

Energetic_2 · 27 November 2012 at 8:50PM

I would happily post some images up but can't seem to attach anything, maybe i am too newb. Perhaps i can email them or PM and you could post them up?

Martyn1981 · 27 November 2012 at 10:05PM

Cardew wrote: »

Can you give your figures and assumptions for the 10-15% please.

Pretty basic maths.

4kWp system @ a modest 900kWh/kWp = 3,600kWh's pa

3,600 * 17.69p (15.44p FIT + 2.25p Export) = £636.84

plus leccy savings @ approx £100 = £736.84

£736.84/£5,500 = 13.4%

or more generally, and to split the estimate right down the middle:

£750/£6,000 = 12.5%

Mart.

PS To get the bottom end estimate, just drop generation to 800kWh/kWp and bump the cost up to £6,660. M.

jamesingram · 27 November 2012 at 10:24PM

In fact more affordable than ever, as the lower install costs has opened it up to a wider range of clients ,

(PV that is)

Domestic solar thermal seem pretty dead in the water unless you DIY. Perhap this is fair enough , as the energy saved in domestic hot water is small portion relative to an average UK home whole energy consumption.

anyone know much about these.
Vacuum insulated Solar thermal panels
http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/breaking/2012/03/16/cern-spin-off-more-efficient-solar-panels

http://www.passengerterminaltoday.com/viewnews.php?NewsID=37366

Could these be used to heat our homes, also making the need to super insulate a thing of the past ?

Martyn1981 · 27 November 2012 at 10:44PM

Hiya James, the sad thing is that solar thermal systems have an incredibly short energy payback period (energy return on energy invested - EROEI) but gas is so cheap compared to leccy that as you say, dead in the water now.

Regarding super-insulated, I think a Passivhaus standard build using MVHR can get by on about 10kWh of heat per day in the winter, which 8 to 10kWp of panels at a steep angle 40 to 50deg would probably provide on average in December (the lowest generation month).

Be one hell of a lot of export in the summer (if allowed).

Seems PV is even pushing out wind with the off-grid guys, as you can now buy it retail for 50p to 60p a watt - and no nighttime panics to lower turbines in a blow, or switch on emergency dump-loads.

Mart.

Energetic_2 · 27 November 2012 at 10:59PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Pretty basic maths.

4kWp system @ a modest 900kWh/kWp = 3,600kWh's pa

3,600 * 17.69p (15.44p FIT + 2.25p Export) = £636.84

plus leccy savings @ approx £100 = £736.84

£736.84/£5,500 = 13.4%

or more generally, and to split the estimate right down the middle:

£750/£6,000 = 12.5%

Mart.

PS To get the bottom end estimate, just drop generation to 800kWh/kWp and bump the cost up to £6,660. M.

Exactly, thanks! I was only going to do it in graphical form, make it a bit prettier... The info i was going to post is cut and pasted from what we give to prospective customers so include estimated RPI, CO2 and a nice chart showing the 6 year payback on a south facing system.

Energetic_2 · 27 November 2012 at 11:08PM

jamesingram wrote: »

In fact more affordable than ever, as the lower install costs has opened it up to a wider range of clients , (PV that is)

Domestic solar thermal seem pretty dead in the water unless you DIY. Perhap this is fair enough , as the energy saved in domestic hot water is small portion relative to an average UK home whole energy consumption.

anyone know much about these.
Vacuum insulated Solar thermal panels

Could these be used to heat our homes, also making the need to super insulate a thing of the past ?

It's a real shame about thermal, we are accreditied for that too but have very little interetst in it now. Great technology, far more efficient than PV but not as well rewarded. Still potentially useful in commercial situations, process heating etc.

We will be dropping it from our MCS this year as the intelligent immersion controllers i've mentioned on the other thread with a >2kW PV system do the same thing with a lot less to go wrong. No extremely hot, high pressure water piping around your living space. No annual servicing required.

PV is a far better payback so best to go as big as you can and make as much use of the power generated as possible.

jamesingram · 28 November 2012 at 10:02AM

Energetic wrote: »

It's a real shame about thermal,

PV is a far better payback so best to go as big as you can and make as much use of the power generated as possible.

Yes I'm starting to think the same . For my own place I'd left space for 6m2 Thermal , but might well fill it with PV and go the immersion route, via the inverter built in relay and contactors on the board ( 4000TL).
Even considering sticking up a arrray on the NW pitch.

Like you say, far easier running a couple of cables.

I'm still tempted by the thermal store route with ST , though , possibly with it making a contribution to space heating , Like Mart says , problem dumping the heat in the summer .
Unless you've interseasonal heat storage , which would be tricky on a budget refurb. project.

Martyn1981 · 28 November 2012 at 12:02PM

As far as PV goes, the future is very bright. I was just reading about the EMMA GVS:

http://www.naturalgen.co.uk/Renewable-Energy-Technologies/energy-management/energy-and-micro-generator-manager/

Great idea, rather than cap generation at 3.68kW, if the DNO won’t allow more, you cap export instead. Already approved by one DNO and being considered by others. This also gets us past one of the UK hurdles, tariff drop at 4kWp. Since install prices (per kWp) drop rapidly from about 2kWp onwards, I reckon anyone that can install and use 5 to 6kWp should.

At a sustained 90% of kWp and some baseload consumption, that would only mean finding a home for about 1.5kWh for maybe 4hrs per day (10am to 2pm) on the sunnier days. Would have thought 6kWh of heated water per day would be reasonable and hopefully the ‘required’ heat dump would never be needed.

We are bound to see more and more ideas and tech like this arriving, maximising the benefits of PV, improving the financial viability, and further reducing the FIT as installs roll out.

I reckon the next big milestone will be if domestic UK PV can match the proposed new nuclear reactors, both on cost of construction/running per kWh, and on a subsidy basis too. I think we are close, but nuclear will always have the 'predictability' trump card.

Mart.

Flibbertygibbet · 28 November 2012 at 12:58PM

I am not sure panels on the roof is the way to go for me, & am wondering if a garden based system would be cheaper and who on earth does them?

Does anyone here have an ideological objection to Solar?

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free