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Parking Fine Court Summons

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  • Coupon-mad wrote: »
    This was just before Christmas so do you know what the issue was? Overstaying maybe, how long?

    Overstaying but not sure by how long I am afraid as my dad returned all letters to sender
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,605 Forumite
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    edited 4 September 2017 at 6:13PM
    As a visitor to the residential flats beyond the barrier, or to Tesco or restaurants/shops?

    Issued by post only (ANPR cameras)? Or were there two windscreen PCNs in December?

    I was trying to find the Planning Permission agreement on the 'max stay' parking time and spotted that there are also flats there, and staff spaces, and that there are two possible entrances mentioned (could be useful - PCM would have to be sure the car didn't exit and then return via the other entrance mentioned):

    http://publicaccess.tewkesbury.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?activeTab=documents&keyVal=JMPCSGQD0AJ00

    http://publicaccess.tewkesbury.gov.uk/online-applications/files/2A168A0E60C2B07A9FDC5D9CA78FF4E2/pdf/07_01145_FUL--_HIGHWAYS_STATEMENT-158030.pdf

    Assuming that's the right place, it might be worth you reading all the documents there, to see if the time limit on PCM's signs is actually what the Planning Permission imposed.

    Point 2.57 and 2.58 in the second link say the max stay ''will be'' 2 hours. Does that match?
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  • I live in the flats above and I'm pretty sure on those days our electric gates weren't working which is why I parked outside.

    I'm fairly sure one was 2 hours but the other wasn't, and yes photos and postal only I've never had a physical ticket.

    I will read through the links first thing in the morning! Thank you so much! Your knowledge is amazing!
  • There is also only 1 way in and out of the car park and as far as I'm aware there aren't in and out camera's
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,605 Forumite
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    edited 4 September 2017 at 7:06PM
    I live in the flats above and I'm pretty sure on those days our electric gates weren't working which is why I parked outside.

    I'm fairly sure one was 2 hours but the other wasn't,

    There will be ANPR cameras, or a hapless goon who takes random pics on a camera phone.

    I'd go with defending this as the driver (not saying 'I am the registered keeper and the driver will not be named') because you have a defence here. You are a resident with an unfettered right to access the flats via the Tesco car park (it is even mentioned as a bit of an issue in that link, I seem to recall from when I skim-read it last night).

    I'd be saying, early on in your defence (which you write in the third person and include all the usual stuff you see in Johnersh's own space/residential defence example in #2 of the NEWBIES thread) that:



    1.1 At all times, the Defendant was a resident of xxxxxx xxxx (flats) and was not a customer parking at Tesco, or any other residential/commercial units, nor was the Defendant in any way abusing the retail park facility.

    1.2 Flat residents at this location have an unfettered right to use a single entrance that takes them past any camera/through the retail car park. On more than one occasion, the electric gates have not been working and residents have been stranded whilst waiting for them to be fixed, in order to access the secure part of the site.

    1.3 The Defendant avers that the undetailed events vaguely referred to in the Claimant's particulars must relate to two such occasions. As such, the Defendant cannot be liable to pay any parking charge which arose due to a failure of a gate on site leading to their space; a matter causing a delay in parking which was completely out of the driver's control.

    1.4 The Defendant would have had no reason whatsoever to park by choice, outside of the allocated secure area for tenants, since the Defendant lives there and has a right to a space which is not restricted to any 2 hour time limit.

    1.5 The Claimant is put to strict proof that the car was parked in the same space for more than 2 hours. Even if they are able to evidence this, there was no relevant obligation nor relevant contract that the Defendant could have agreed to, or could have been considered to have breached.

    1.6 It is argued that it would be unconscionable for these charges to be pursued and upheld in the courts, under the circumstances described. Each parking charge case turns on its own facts, and this matter can be fully distinguished from ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 where the penalty rule was found to be undisputably engaged, yet that Claimant's charge in a 'unique' and complex case, escaped being held to be an unrecoverable penalty.

    1.7 In all cases, it remains the Claimant's burden to demonstrate a 'legitimate interest' in recovering any sum higher than the landholder could claim for damages and the Claimant is put to strict proof of their alleged commercial justification/legitimate interest in pursuing residents disadvantaged and delayed by an electronic gate failure.

    1.8 Any failure of the gates leading to the secure area is fully within the control of the site landowner, who must be the same party with whom this Claimant contracts. There can be no lawful reason to use the excuse of stranding residents outside of the secure area, to then impose charges upon them for this misfortune.

    1.9 This is surely a matter of frustration of contract, and/or derogation from grant, neither of which can lead to a liability for the innocent party of a driver unable to move their car until the gates were opened. There is no question that Residents are entitled to use the car park in question to reach/leave the residents' secure parking area. This right is proven to be the case, as recorded in the Planning documents, where concerns were raised at Local authority discussions regarding the fact that residents would have to use the retail park to access and egress their spaces.

    1.10 Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, ''a term or notice is unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations under the contract, to the consumer’s detriment''. Fairness must be considered by any court considering a consumer 'contract' matter and 'unfairness' is determined taking into account:

    (a) the nature of the subject matter of the contract or notice
    (b) all the circumstances existing when the term was agreed to, and
    (c) all of the other terms of the contract or any other contract on which it depends

    ''Significant imbalance'' is concerned with the parties’ rights and obligations under the contract. The requirement is met if a term is so weighted in favour of a business that it tilts the rights and obligations under the contract significantly in its favour, for instance, granting the trader undue discretion or imposing a disadvantageous burden on the consumer. It is confidently argued that this must be the case here, where the Claimant's principal - the landowner - is the same party responsible for the upkeep of the site, gates, etc., and neither that party nor their agents can lawfully profit or gain from the delay caused to residents having to wait, on some occasions, for the gate mechanism to be released.
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  • Overstaying but not sure by how long I am afraid as my dad returned all letters to sender

    If this is correct the PPC were on notice that they were pursuing you at the wrong address, yet resolved to issue proceedings?

    !!!!!!, I'd be arguing that (a) it's not good service (unless you have acknowledged already) and (b) that they are not entitled to pursue you for any amount other than the original charge on the basis that they were corresponding in willful blindness as an exercise in costs building. That is inappropriate and a misuse of court resources and disregard for the protocol re pre-action conduct.
  • Johnersh wrote: »
    If this is correct the PPC were on notice that they were pursuing you at the wrong address, yet resolved to issue proceedings?

    !!!!!!, I'd be arguing that (a) it's not good service (unless you have acknowledged already) and (b) that they are not entitled to pursue you for any amount other than the original charge on the basis that they were corresponding in willful blindness as an exercise in costs building. That is inappropriate and a misuse of court resources and disregard for the protocol re pre-action conduct.

    I have already acknowledged already sadly
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,605 Forumite
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    Right, so proceed as per Plan A and look at the defence style already mentioned to copy from, and add in the part I wrote. Show us the resulting draft defence, with headings as shown in the example.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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  • How will I know if my Acknowledgment was in time or not?
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 41,344 Forumite
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    BenStanley wrote: »
    How will I know if my Acknowledgment was in time or not?

    Phone the CCBC and ask.
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
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