Purchased a car, Didnt know it had Outstanding Finance
Comments
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And if you read the update to the article:
"Following our initial report, Guy Skipwith, of Citizens Advice Specialist Support, has contacted us to say that our advice in his view, is not entirely correct. "Where a motor vehicle is subject to an HP or conditional sale agreement, while the vendor does not own it and has no right to sell it, a private purchaser who buys the car in good faith without notice of the HP or conditional sale agreement obtains good title to it. He does so under section 27 of the Hire Purchase Act 1964."
I'd do a check but it seems it's not obligatory.
However many details can mean you can't rely on that exception to the rule.
For example if the buyer purchased it using a stolen driving licence (as in shogun v hudson), title wont pass because the original agreement between the fraudster & shogun was void for mistake (meaning title couldnt pass under section 27 because the HP/conditional sale agreement wasn't valid).
The general rule is the nemo dat rule - you cant give what you dont have (title). There are exceptions but they're restrictively applied due to the general rule so the devil is definitely in the detail.
Personally, I wouldn't like to rely on such technicalities when I'm potentially going to be out by several thousand pounds.You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride0 -
Hence my footnote "I'd do a check......"unholyangel wrote: »However many details can mean you can't rely on that exception to the rule.
For example if the buyer purchased it using a stolen driving licence (as in shogun v hudson), title wont pass because the original agreement between the fraudster & shogun was void for mistake (meaning title couldnt pass under section 27 because the HP/conditional sale agreement wasn't valid).
The general rule is the nemo dat rule - you cant give what you dont have (title). There are exceptions but they're restrictively applied due to the general rule so the devil is definitely in the detail.
Personally, I wouldn't like to rely on such technicalities when I'm potentially going to be out by several thousand pounds.0 -
Hence my footnote "I'd do a check......"
...but its not obligatory.
Yes I know, I read it. I'm just pointing out that it not being obligatory doesn't mean its not what you should do.
Just like me turning the power off when doing electrical work in the house isn't obligatory but its definitely what I should do if I'm not a complete idiot.You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means - Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride0 -
So are you trying to say that the following comment isn't incorrect:Stevie_Palimo wrote: »Oh I am sorry shaun from Africa as usual is right again and nobody need ever do a hpi check again when buying a car, I think I'll pass on that thanks.Stevie_Palimo wrote: »If the finance Company decide to come a knocking and seek to collect what is outstanding you have two choices here either pay them out what is owed or face having the car taken away,
Why do some people get so upset when others point out inaccuracies in what they post?0 -
shaun_from_Africa wrote: »So are you trying to say that the following comment isn't incorrect:
I am saying you are talking tripe Shaun and as usual you believe that you know best and nobody else could ever possibly be right.
Why do some people get so upset when others point out inaccuracies in what they post?
Well having seen a car get taken on the basis of what I have posted would suggest that your explanation of events is not strictly true or accurate.
In short Shaun try and understand that you do not always know everything and that others can post things on a forum that represent facts/knowledge also.0 -
Innocent purchaser, Google it.Stevie_Palimo wrote: »Well having seen a car get taken on the basis of what I have posted would suggest that your explanation of events is not strictly true or accurate.
In short Shaun try and understand that you do not always know everything and that others can post things on a forum that represent facts/knowledge also.0 -
Stevie_Palimo wrote: »Well having seen a car get taken on the basis of what I have posted would suggest that your explanation of events is not strictly true or accurate.
In short Shaun try and understand that you do not always know everything and that others can post things on a forum that represent facts/knowledge also.
I will be the first to admit that I don't know everything, in fact there are without a doubt, many things that I know little or nothing about.
However, as you don't appear to know about S27 of the Hire purchase act, don't you think that it's also a possibility that the purchaser of the car you refer to was also unaware of this legislation and simply let the vehicle go without fighting for it?
And from the link provided by soolin earlier:Protection of purchasers of motor vehicles.
(1) This section applies where a motor vehicle has been bailed or (in Scotland) hired under a hire-purchase agreement, or has been agreed to be sold under a conditional sale agreement, and, before the property in the vehicle has become vested in the debtor, he disposes of the vehicle to another person.
(2) Where the disposition referred to in subsection (1) above is to a private purchaser, and he is a purchaser of the motor vehicle in good faith without notice of the hire-purchase or conditional sale agreement (the “relevant agreement”) that disposition shall have effect as if the creditor’s title to the vehicle has been vested in the debtor immediately before that disposition.Following our initial report, Guy Skipwith, of Citizens Advice Specialist Support, has contacted us to say that our advice in his view, is not entirely correct. "Where a motor vehicle is subject to an HP or conditional sale agreement, while the vendor does not own it and has no right to sell it, a private purchaser who buys the car in good faith without notice of the HP or conditional sale agreement obtains good title to it. He does so under section 27 of the Hire Purchase Act 1964.
Can you provide anything apart from unverifiable second hand knowledge to actually back up your claim that what I am posting is "tripe"?0 -
Spoke to the company today. They've said and they've stressed that the finance agreement isn't with me. They've said that nothing will affect me as I'm an innocent buyer. They have however said that they are trying to get in contact with the customer who took out the finance (the guy I bought the car from). They've said to give them about two weeks and then to call back. The finance marker will not be removed until they can conclude the investigation.
Like I said, multiple times they reassured me that the car will not be repossessed.
Judging by the fact that I can't get in touch with the seller, I presume they've done a runner. So the finance company will probably sell off the debt and the seller will get a CCJ in the end.
Called Citizens Advice who basically scared the crap out of me by telling me that I may have to go to court.0 -
AshTheLegend wrote: »Spoke to the company today. They've said and they've stressed that the finance agreement isn't with me. They've said that nothing will affect me as I'm an innocent buyer. They have however said that they are trying to get in contact with the customer who took out the finance (the guy I bought the car from). They've said to give them about two weeks and then to call back. The finance marker will not be removed until they can conclude the investigation.
Like I said, multiple times they reassured me that the car will not be repossessed.
Judging by the fact that I can't get in touch with the seller, I presume they've done a runner. So the finance company will probably sell off the debt and the seller will get a CCJ in the end.
Called Citizens Advice who basically scared the crap out of me by telling me that I may have to go to court.
A good result for you then! It's unfortunate the seller has tried to defraud his finance company - if they can trace him he's in a lot of trouble.
One thing I'd think about checking though is whether the car is in decent condition. If the bloke who sold it was dodgy enough to rip off his lender...0 -
The car is pretty mint to be honest.
When you say that the seller is in a lot of trouble, I was thinking about that. Theoretically he can have the boom thrown at him if they trace him, but realistically what will actually happen to him? Sod all most likely. Ruined credit history which renews after 6 years?0
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