Parents, pensions & wills

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  • p00hsticks
    p00hsticks Posts: 12,822 Forumite
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    edited 11 June 2017 at 7:05PM
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    I have no idea what type of pension it is. I know it was before this modern workplace pension came into play and i know he had been paying into it for years which his employer also paid into. The employer would match to a percentage but i don't know what that was.
    How would you find out what type of pension it was so that we could make better sense of it?

    THe fact that your father was getting a regular sum each month and your mother gets a proportion of that since he dies suggests it is likely to be a Defined Benefit scheme - one where he was promised a certain amount each month linked to his salary, however long he lived, with a similar benefit for his widow if he died before her.

    If this is the case, there is no 'pot' to be passed on further on your mothers death.
    The pension scheme itself will be able to confirm the type of pension and whether this is the case.
    How do you buy more years and is this a costly thing?

    If you mother is unlikely to get enough years NI credits for a full state pension she could buy more - but first she needs to see how many she already has, by using the link xylophone has provided. She also needs to be aware that, as Mojisola points out, if she is getting any disability benefits such as ESA or PIP she will be getting NI credits anyhow.

    If she is not getting credits and does not qualify for a full state pension then she could in the future buy voluntary Class 3 NI contributions at a cost of around £733 a year, and each year bought would add around £4.35 a week to her state pension up to the maximum of £159.55

    Guide to topping up here
    https://www.royallondon.com/Global/documents/GoodWithYourMoney/TOPPING-UP-YOUR-STATE-PENSION-GUIDE.pdf
  • Not_Me_Officer
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    p00hsticks wrote: »
    THe fact that your father was getting a regular sum each month and your mother gets a proportion of that since he dies suggests it is likely to be a Defined Benefit scheme - one where he was promised a certain amount each month linked to his salary, however long he lived, with a similar benefit for his widow if he died before her.

    If this is the case, there is no 'pot' to be passed on further on your mothers death.
    The pension scheme itself will be able to confirm the type of pension and whether this is the case.
    Capita hartshead is a name that comes to me. I'm sure this was on paperwork after he died if that helps.
    At any rate what happens to all the money he put in then after my mother dies? Feeds the government?
    And how would i make sure that my money doesn't go that way? I personally think it's very wrong but that's just my opinion.


    she could in the future buy voluntary Class 3 NI contributions at a cost of around £733 a year, and each year bought would add around £4.35 a week to her state pension up to the maximum of £159.55
    I would of course have to get her to use the calculator but it would be hardly worth it wouldn't it?
    £4.35 per week adding up to £226.20 per year so it wouldn't even come close to covering the £733 she'd have to pay out.

    As for her benefits i'm sure i remember her talking about disability living allowance and income benefit.
    But now i think it's DWP EESA and DWP DLA if this helps any and she's had these things throughout.
  • Mojisola
    Mojisola Posts: 35,557 Forumite
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    But now i think it's DWP ESA

    So she should have been getting credits towards her pension for these years.

    Get a state pension forecast.
  • Mojisola
    Mojisola Posts: 35,557 Forumite
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    At any rate what happens to all the money he put in then after my mother dies? Feeds the government?

    If it's a private pension, the money stays with the company.
  • atush
    atush Posts: 18,726 Forumite
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    At any rate what happens to all the money he put in then after my mother dies? Feeds the government?

    i am afraid this is a very ignorant comment. No offence intended as you came here to be enlightened.

    If it is a DB final salary type pension, his small contribution has probably already been paid out with interest. But in general, this type of pension has those who die early, supporting those that live til their 90's-100's. And does pay out to spouses and dependents for years after death.

    In fact, with DB pensions, the employer pays most of the contributions. And carries a financial burden going forwards if they live longer than normal. Some companies have been known to fail under the burden.

    This long winded payout system means this type of pension is skewed to the benefit of the employee- not employer. And the Govt doesnt get a penny of it. Unless they get paid enough to be more than their personal tax allowance. In which case they arent really poor?
  • Not_Me_Officer
    Not_Me_Officer Posts: 302 Forumite
    edited 11 June 2017 at 9:53PM
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    atush wrote: »
    i am afraid this is a very ignorant comment.
    You can call it ignorant, i call it a guess as i don't know but don't worry, no offence was taken regardless :) ATEOTD it's just words on a screen so i'm not going to get offended :) And you're spot on why i came here.

    We spoke a little about pensions before he died and i do know that he paid into a pension for the vast majority of his working life and he began when 14 i think it was. May have been 15. I remember it was certainly before 16 when he left school and started work. I know in addition to his normal job role and as well as being a health and safety person at his workplace also i do remember him being some sort of pensions representative for the company and used to go to meetings in London. Not trying to say this made him anything supergreatamazing but he wont have done all that and paid barely anything in i can say for sure.
    Regards the employer he was with as he retired, i also remember while they paid in they didn't pay more than him. I just thought at the time it was quite good how his employer at least paid in while mine didn't.

    So the employer didn't pay most of the contributions and in the time since his death with the amounts my mother has received since i would also doubt she has received more than he put in over the years. It'll be about 5 years now and i highly doubt he only put aside enough to cover himself for 5 years of retirement with nothing after that, in fact he didn't. And that would've been on the figure he would've been pulling each year and not a percentage of it which is what my mother is getting.

    Not arguing here, just saying.
  • Thrugelmir
    Thrugelmir Posts: 89,546 Forumite
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    So the employer didn't pay most of the contributions and in the time since his death with the amounts my mother has received since i would also doubt she has received more than he put in over the years. It'll be about 5 years now and i highly doubt he only put aside enough to cover himself for 5 years of retirement with nothing after that, in fact he didn't. And that would've been on the figure he would've been pulling each year and not a percentage of it which is what my mother is getting.

    That's the nature of pooled risk. Some people are winners and some losers. The purpose though isn't to ensure an inheritance is passed to the next of kin.
  • Not_Me_Officer
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    Thrugelmir wrote: »
    That's the nature of pooled risk. Some people are winners and some losers. The purpose though isn't to ensure an inheritance is passed to the next of kin.
    While i accept that and agree, if i could have the option to go one way and have that happen or go another and have it not happen then so long as there's zero difference to the money i receive in retirement (since like you said that's what it's for) then obviously i would go the way of making sure it could pass on.
  • p00hsticks
    p00hsticks Posts: 12,822 Forumite
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    So the employer didn't pay most of the contributions and in the time since his death with the amounts my mother has received since i would also doubt she has received more than he put in over the years.

    If your mother's been receiving a widows pension for five years and is still only in her mid fifties they may well have to continue to pay out a pension to her for another thirty or forty years - as long as he would have been paying in.
  • Keep_pedalling
    Keep_pedalling Posts: 16,625 Forumite
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    I would of course have to get her to use the calculator but it would be hardly worth it wouldn't it?
    £4.35 per week adding up to £226.20 per year so it wouldn't even come close to covering the £733 she'd have to pay out.
    .

    I guess maths is not a strongpoint for you. The payback period is just over 3 years and she could be getting that paid for 20 years or more, so yes it is worth doing, especially as it's indexed linked.

    The only time it would not be worth doing would be if you knew you had less than 3 years to live.
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