To put a property in "Trust."

24

Comments

  • seven-day-weekend
    seven-day-weekend Posts: 36,755
    Name Dropper First Anniversary Photogenic Combo Breaker
    Forumite
    If he/she wishes their children to have their house which they have worked and paid for, and is theirs to do with as they wish, I personally don't see why they shouldn't.

    However, I do understand the burden upon the taxpayer . This is not an easy subject, and I for one do not know the answer.

    I think the only answer, OP, to make sure that the house remains for your children, is to sign it over to them now while you are still relatively young and either live somewhere else or rent it from them at market rent. Then if you live long enough after doing this it should be relatively safe. Nothing else will save it, afaik, and even doing this does not guarantee it will not be taken.

    Be aware that if you do this then any future wife/husband of your children will be entitled to a share, and it may also be affected if any of them go bankrupt. Or they may of course, just chuck you out.

    Regarding a trust to protect it, I don't think even these are foolproof these days. You need to see a lawyer.

    What a world, when we have to jump through hoops to be able to keep our own legal belongings and not have them taken from us.

    Hope you find a way OP. If you do, let me know!
    (AKA HRH_MUngo)
    Member #10 of £2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
  • margaretclare
    margaretclare Posts: 10,789 Forumite
    I think, 7DWE, that the question is not whether the OP can leave her property to whosoever she wishes, of course she can. She can live comfortably in it for the rest of her life and arrange her will according to whom she wishes to inherit. That is not in dispute. What is in dispute, and the subject of the OP's post, is her stated aim to enter a care home at some future point, but not to pay for this by using her assets which may/may not include her house property.

    She may, of course, have sufficient financial resources to find the £60 or so a day (at today's prices) required for this, together with state pension and attendance allowance, without touching the house property. This would obviously be the preferred option. There are so many unknown factors here. We're not told what kind of a house it is - is it possible to live there given advancing age and infirmity, or is it unsuitable, a lot of stairs for example? We don't know whether the OP has other savings or investments. Put simply, the original question read to me as: 'I intend to enter a care home but I don't want to pay for it'.

    Useful suggestions have been made, by Errata, missile, EdInvestor and Savvy_Sue. It has nothing to do with the kind of world we live in. It has always been the case that 'you get what you pay for' and 'nothing for nothing'.

    We all have our personal perspective on this kind of question. Of course it's natural, with advancing age breathing down our necks, to consider what may happen in an unknowable future. We all have our own preferred solution. Mine does not, and will never, include entry into a care home except as an extremely last resort and even then I shall probably have to be carried off kicking and screaming!

    DH and I are still saving and investing because we do not know what the future holds and what we may need in time to come. That's simple enough. This year's project looks like being the front drive and the way down into the garden (steps instead of a slope). These projects are designed for greater safety and convenience, although the secondary effect will probably be an increase in house value. That's not why we're doing it. I applaud the OP's wish not to be a 'burden' on her family. I certainly do not intend to be a 'burden' on anyone - again, that's why we're still saving, and spending money on our comfort and convenience.

    Margaret
    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Æ[/FONT]r ic wisdom funde, [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]æ[/FONT]r wear[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ð[/FONT] ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
  • Errata
    Errata Posts: 38,230
    First Post Combo Breaker
    Forumite
    One alternative to current funding of both residential and nursing care is to return to the system that existed years ago, which was completely free.
    Live on a back ward alongside 20 others in a local psychiatric hospital or a geriatric back ward alongside 20 others in a small local general hospital.
    Or move to Scotland.
    It's curious that people should not wish to 'burden' their children but believe it's their right to be a burden on the state.
    .................:)....I'm smiling because I have no idea what's going on ...:)
  • EdInvestor
    EdInvestor Posts: 15,749 Forumite
    Errata wrote: »
    Ed's post is useful but it needs to be pointed out that the fees quoted for residential care are out by 50% for the north east and I guess by a similar percentage for other regions.


    This is true, the figures are out of date for the cost of nursing homes. But although care home fees have gone up, so have pension incomes and attendance allowances.

    What people need to know is how much it will cost to fund the gap between the two.The figures given are for a 12k p.a topup and are still current AFAIK, indeed the annuities should be a bit cheaper at present as interest rates have been rising.

    There's also a lot of useful info on the website published by the specialist IFA NHFA, which has now been taken over by HSBC bank.

    https://www.hsbcpensions.co.uk/nhfa/index.asp
    Trying to keep it simple...;)
  • seven-day-weekend
    seven-day-weekend Posts: 36,755
    Name Dropper First Anniversary Photogenic Combo Breaker
    Forumite
    Margaret, we to intend to save if we can, but not to the detriment of enjoying our retirement. By the time we get all our pensions, (2014 for the final ones )they should amount to around £18000. So not a lot to play with.

    We also don't intend to go into care other than kicking and screaming.

    Only way I can see round it, especially as we will want to live in our UK house again at some point, is when the time comes to give our son a hefty deposit from the sale of our Spanish house so that he can afford a mortgage on a modest flat. (Or are you not allowed to do that either?).

    Then, if our house does eventually get taken off us, then at least he's got something. If it doesn't then he's got more than he expected.

    There is no way our son is going to be left homeless because the state dictate that we can't give him what we have bought with our own money. No way.

    We may even move to Scotland. My neice just has.
    (AKA HRH_MUngo)
    Member #10 of £2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
  • margaretclare
    margaretclare Posts: 10,789 Forumite
    No one is proposing your son being made homeless! You are constantly going on about 'houses getting taken off you' and not being allowed to do as you like with what you own. No one has ever said that, no one has ever threatened to take your house off you - either of your houses.

    All that has been said is that, as the OP said, she intends to move into care. Fine. Let her do that, if it's what she wants. Under present conditions - and who knows what changes may come about before she makes that move - it means she has to find a way of paying for it. Retirement pension and attendance allowance will go some way towards the cost. As Ed rightly says above 'What people need to know is how to fund the gap between the two' i.e. the gap between cost of care and pensions and allowances they're already entitled to. Getting paranoid about 'houses being taken off you' does not answer the question.

    And who ever said that 'enjoying retirement' and 'saving' were mutually-exclusive? We enjoy our retirement too. Who could avoid enjoying retirement on such a beautiful summer day as we had today, doing exactly what we like, no one making any demands on us, no one telling us what to do, just relaxing in our own garden enjoying each other's company and watching the birds being so busy bringing up their families?

    Moving to Scotland may be an option if you have no loyalty to, and no love for, your own country. Me, I could never live in any other country but England. I've visited others, lived and worked in others, but I have no wish ever to live in someone else's country. I'm too deeply-rooted in the soil of England, 'her sights and sounds, dreams happy as her day' as Rupert Brooke wrote.

    Is it really the case that all these things are free in Scotland? And if it is, who is paying for it? The English taxpayer, perhaps, under the Barnett Formula?

    Margaret
    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Æ[/FONT]r ic wisdom funde, [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]æ[/FONT]r wear[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ð[/FONT] ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
  • seven-day-weekend
    seven-day-weekend Posts: 36,755
    Name Dropper First Anniversary Photogenic Combo Breaker
    Forumite
    Margaret I wasn't saying that you couldn't save AND enjoy your retirement, I was merely pointing out that my husband and I will not have a HUGE amount of money, but I'm sure we will be able to live OK.

    And actually I concede the point about paying for your care home; if the worst comes to the worst and you don't have enough money, using your home as an income is often the only way out, and this means that many homes have to be sold to do so.

    To be quite honest, the remark about 'homelessness' and the general tone of my last post were not because I think anyone IS going to take my home off me, but a mini-rant, because for the life of me I can't see why everyone doesn't think it an iniquity that it might be. We may bow to the inevitable, but no-one on here seems to have any sympathy for people who might want to keep their family home in their family and die knowing their children are well set-up. For many people, that is what they have worked and saved so hard for. And I just think it might be nice to have a little compassion for those who are worried by it and are trying to avoid it as best they can.

    As for Scotland, my husband would never consider living there - too dark and cold for his liking. But living in another country doesn't mean you have no love for your own. England will ALWAYS be my country and nothing can change that. But we wanted a few years living in this 'land of light' where the sun usually shines and we can experience another culture.
    (AKA HRH_MUngo)
    Member #10 of £2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
  • missile
    missile Posts: 11,684
    Name Dropper Photogenic First Post Combo Breaker
    Forumite
    There are differences accross the EU and it is swings and roundabouts where one chooses to live, for example pensioners are entitled to a "free" 2 week holiday in Spain. These things are NOT free in Scotland and certainly not funded by the English taxpayer - it is funded directly by those who pay council tax in Scotland.

    When I was young(er) only the megga rich could afford to subsidise their kids onto the housing ladder.
    "A nation's greatness is measured by how it treats its weakest members." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
    Ride hard or stay home :iloveyou:
  • seven-day-weekend
    seven-day-weekend Posts: 36,755
    Name Dropper First Anniversary Photogenic Combo Breaker
    Forumite
    missile wrote: »
    There are differences accross the EU and it is swings and roundabouts where one chooses to live, for example pensioners are entitled to a free 2 week holiday in Spain. One can work the system to benefit and many do. These things are NOT free in Scotland and certainly not funded by the English taxpayer - it is funded directly by those who pay council tax in Scotland. Unless you can support such a biggoted comment? please do not start that racist nonsense.

    When I was young(er) only the megga rich could afford to subsidise their kids onto the housing ladder.

    If you are referring to my post, I had no intention of being racist, my remark about moving to Scotland was just a throw-away remark that I made because I was cheesed off with people not understanding why other people might want to do their best to keep their hard-earned homes.

    Anyway, I'm saying no more in this thread because it is just making me angry and that is of no use to anyone.
    (AKA HRH_MUngo)
    Member #10 of £2 savers club
    Imagine someone holding forth on biology whose only knowledge of the subject is the Book of British Birds, and you have a rough idea of what it feels like to read Richard Dawkins on theology: Terry Eagleton
  • margaretclare
    margaretclare Posts: 10,789 Forumite
    I think the 'racist' comment was aimed at me, 7DWE, when I commented on the Barnett Formula (which many people are not even aware of). An accusation of 'racism' is one of the easiest to throw around nowadays and it is something we've all grown a bit paranoid about because, of course, none of us wants to be racist, do we - that's an unpleasant thing we'd rather not be. And it does tend to stifle rational and necessary debate on serious concerns. People feel they can't raise a question because of the fear of being branded 'racist'. There was an article in Saturday's 'Daily Telegraph' on this very point.

    I don't blame you for having a mini-rant, and actually I do sympathise with the OP. According to her post, she said she was 60, she could foresee a time when she would need to be looked after (no details there - has she got an existing health condition?) but did not want to be a 'burden' on her family - (again no details - how might she be a 'burden'?) and she intended to go into a care home. The debate since then has turned on how this is to be paid for. Ed has suggested state retirement pension plus attendance allowance, but there is a gap between this and the cost of being in a care home. OK. SRP is £87.30 and AA is £64.50, that's £151.80 a week. £60 a day may or not be an average figure for care home living - £60 x 7 = £420 a week, so the 'gap' that Ed mentioned is obvious.

    I don't think that anyone will ever take your home from you, or from anyone. My understanding is that it doesn't happen that way at all, if in fact it ever does, but I have no detailed knowledge of what actually does happen. There are a lot of inaccuracies, half-truths, urban myths and what might be called 'pub talk' surrounding all these issues.

    I still think that someone who makes the conscious decision, as the OP has done, of wanting to live in a care home, will have to find some way of paying for it. And like 7DWE, I don't intend to contribute any more. It's impossible to counter emotion with logic, which is what I've been trying to do. In any case, this is a distraction - I have the first of 2 GCSE Maths exams tomorrow and I'm still revising.

    Margaret
    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Æ[/FONT]r ic wisdom funde, [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]æ[/FONT]r wear[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]ð[/FONT] ic eald.
    Before I found wisdom, I became old.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 342.5K Banking & Borrowing
  • 249.9K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.4K Spending & Discounts
  • 234.6K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 607.1K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 172.8K Life & Family
  • 247.4K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.8K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards