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Parking Eye in Hospital
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luke123456 wrote: »Ok thanks to you both
I have written to PALS by email with proof of the blue badge.
I will await their response as I have marked the email URGENT and if no reply within the next 2 or 3 weeks I will write to POPLA.
no you wont write to POPLA
you will however , write a popla appeal and then UPLOAD it to the POPLA website as a pdf attachment0 -
no you wont write to POPLA
you will however , write a popla appeal and then UPLOAD it to the POPLA website as a pdf attachment
And you need to be making a start now on researching this and preparing a draft POPLA appeal. Don't leave it until you hear back from PALS in 2-3 weeks, because if they can't help you, you'll be so close to the wire to submit an appeal - it will be panic stations!Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
PALS have replied today and said they forwarded my email and attachments to the car parking manager.
The car parking manager then replied;
I have been forwarded your email by our PALs department to respond to your complaint regarding a parking charge issued to your vehicle.
The car parks at the Royal Free site are controlled and monitored by ANPR cameras (Automatic Number Plate Recognition). To prevent a parking charge from being generated, all vehicles must be registered to park on site. Blue badge holders need to do this via our main reception desk on the ground floor, opposite the main entrance doors to the hospital or security next to A&E. This is also notified to all blue badge holders via the parking signs (copy of one is attached for your reference). The onus is on the driver to read the parking signs on any site and to make themselves aware of the parking rules and regulations.
I have also provided you with a copy of the Blue Badge Rights & Responsibilities booklet for your reference.
Unfortunately, as the blue badge was not registered, there is no evidence to support whether the vehicle was parked correctly or that the blue badge was actually used by xxx, therefore there are no grounds to cancel on this occasion. I am satisfied that the parking charge was issued correctly and support ParkingEye’s decision to reject your appeal.
Regards
Dee Davis
Car Parking Manager
Facilities Management
Royal Free London NHS Foundation Trust
Royal Free Hospital0 -
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She sent me the above image and also the following attachment;
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/443225/blue-badge-rights-responsibilities.PDF0 -
what was the "contravention" that PE issued on the NTK ?
and WHY did the badge holder not register it as per the signage ?0 -
So my POPLA appeal should mention that this makes the disabled person have to go inside the building and out of it to register with reception/security if out of hours, whereas an able bodied person can just park with the machine nearby (located in the car park) or they can call and pay by phone. So this is against equality rights...
Not sure what other points to mention
Thanks0 -
what was the "contravention" that PE issued on the NTK ?
and WHY did the badge holder not register it as per the signage ?
I guess it was too late and dark at 11pm....but PE will say there is adequate lighting, and this was a bit odd so as the driver or disabled person we didn't know there was such a policy....
Also, the PE NTK doesn't really state a contravention....
It does state however...
'By not purchasing the appropriate parking time or by remaining at the car park longer than permitted, in accordance with the signage and T&C's set out, the Parking charge is now payable to PE Ltd (as the Creditor)'0 -
luke123456 wrote: »So my POPLA appeal should mention that this makes the disabled person have to go inside the building and out of it to register with reception/security if out of hours, whereas an able bodied person can just park with the machine nearby (located in the car park) or they can call and pay by phone. So this is against equality rights...
Not sure what other points to mention
Thanks
POPLA have never ruled on the EA2010 issues so although your popla appeal may mention the above it wont sway them at all
a counter claim under the EA2010 is what applies to those comments , a separate issue, against both PE and the trust
post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread explains the grounds for popla appeals with examples and a few templates
they expect the apellant to write down legal arguments , such as
POFA2012 ISSUES
NO LOCUS STANDII (NO CONTRACT)
POOR OR INADEQUATE SIGNAGE
POOR LIGHTING
BPA COP ISSUES
NTK ISSUES
any laws or precedents or statements that may apply (such as POFA , CRA2015 , HENRY GREENSLADE comments etc)
and anything else , but I think they will ignore the comments you amde about the BB and the EA2010
ps:- what PE are saying is that the BB holder has not "purchased" the free 4 hours stay by registering the BB and or VRM at reception on the terminal or however it is done (not complied with that signage above) - or they stayed longer than 4 hours , or both
and the trust are saying that when you read the BB booklet it does say its not valid on private land and other rules may apply (and often different rules do apply - so not the same as on public roads etc)
pps:- they are not saying that the disabled person has to register the BB, they are saying it has to be registered , so ANYBODY can do it, including "carers" or the driver or anyone who wishes to do the task ON BEHALF OF the BB holder
if the BB holder had been solo that day then I agree with your interpretation , as it has happened to me (not at this hospital though) , but as they were accompanied presumably by an able bodied person or carer then that person could and should have done it
and my word "contravention" was enclosed in parethesis because it was a word chosen to encompass any excuse for a rule that they consider was broken because this is a civil matter
and I would write back to DEE DAVIS with a copy of the NHS guidelines and ask why they are not being followed 2.5 years after they were introduced by JEREMY HUNT and tell her that they may be included in a counter claim under the EA2010 for violating the rights of a disabled person (in the manner you described above)0 -
I would respond again to Dee; I have seen her cancel these before now and this is disability discrimination in expecting you to know that different rules apply in this car park and that displaying a Blue Badge on the dashboard is not enough. How would you know and why should you be harassed for an enormous charge due to their failure to communicate it and failure to follow the Government policy?To prevent a parking charge from being generated, all vehicles must be registered to park on site. Blue badge holders need to do this via our main reception desk on the ground floor, opposite the main entrance doors to the hospital or security next to A&E. This is also notified to all blue badge holders via the parking signs (copy of one is attached for your reference).
Dear Dee Davis,
This is not good enough and appears to have been pre-written by ParkingEye or under their guidance.
The NHS Trust and PALS should be deeply ashamed of fob-off replies like your response; in it you are supporting a punitive regime specifically disallowed by the Government since 2014. The facts of the policy were reminded to all NHS Trusts in a Dept for Health Memorandum in 2015 and the Royal Free remain in breach. The Trust appear to have shown no due diligence whatsoever before signing this inadvisable contract. It allows this notoriously litigious firm to decide (without any right of veto on the NHS Trust's behalf, no clause to protect patients first?) to sue stressed or ill people who arrive and park in good faith.
Could you kindly confirm:
1. whether the alleged obligation to register a Blue Badge at reception was visible from the disabled bay used, at night?
2. how you think supplying me with a copy of a previously unknown 'Blue Badge Rights & Responsibilities booklet' for my reference after the event is helpful?
3. how you think a Blue Badge holder has any 'responsibility' to take specific extra steps to avoid 'fines', than able bodied motorists who have no such hoop to jump through?
4. how a Blue Badge holder would guess they should not display the Badge on the dashboard, as is the case in any other situation on street or in car parks?
5. as it was dark (11pm) how were we supposed to see the unlit signs?
6. as it was 11pm, why does your generic reply tell me that the rules were to register the Badge at Reception? The sign doesn't say that (now that I have a photo taken in broad daylight). I see that it tells drivers about an unidentified 'security office' that you merely have to 'report to'.
7. is that the 'contract' I am alleged to have breached, a failure to (before seeking health care) report to 'security'...an office that has no signposting, nor does the sign set out any obligation to actually do anything when so 'reporting' ?
8. in hours of darkness do able-bodied drivers also have to find their way to this 'security office'? Or is that just an extra hoop for the disabled people in society, many of whom visit Hospital and certainly do not have such rules at the forefront of our mind.
9. why the NHS Trust does not cancel these fines immediately, if a Blue Badge is shown at appeal stage, given the fact that you hold records showing that I was attending the Hospital that day and that I meet the definition of disability under the Equality Act 2010?
10. whether you or any staff members in the Car Parking 'team' (or anywhere on site) are in whole or in part, remunerated by ParkingEye? Or whether a payment is made towards running costs/dealing with complaints? If yes, how much is paid by ParkingEye and to fund what?
11. how many complaints have you had in the last calendar year about ParkingEye (whether fobbed off or not)? How many of that total were cancelled?
12. how many were from disabled people showing Blue Badges? How many of that total were cancelled?
If these final three questions are a matter of FOI I look forward to receiving the answers within the stipulated timescale, not delaying a reply to the other questions.PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0
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