P2P: Saving Stream (AKA SavingStream)

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  • economic
    economic Posts: 3,002 Forumite
    edited 4 March 2017 at 10:00PM
    masonic wrote: »
    The information that I've seen is the interest payments have been funded out of working capital, not the provision fund.

    However, the provision fund has just paid out about £400k to compensate investors in PBL020 when the security valued at £2.4m sold for £1.3m and failed to cover the £1.7m loan. They also paid 9 months of interest, valued at £153k, presumably out of their own capital, and receiver/admin costs of £170k.

    sold for just under £1m less then valued??? if this becomes more frequent then the provision fund and working capital will be wiped out..... they will proabbly as lenders to take a hit before depleting the fund completely (to spread it out).
  • masonic
    masonic Posts: 23,262 Forumite
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    economic wrote: »
    sold for just under £1m less then valued??? paying all this out of their own capital as well? if this happens often there wont be a platform anymore.
    Yes and this was the loan jamesd mentioned where they had 10% ownership of the company borrowing the money. :rotfl:
  • economic
    economic Posts: 3,002 Forumite
    masonic wrote: »
    Yes and this was the loan jamesd mentioned where they had 10% ownership of the company borrowing the money. :rotfl:

    haha very dodgy indeed! i wonder how many people realise this is going on. i wonder how many people have withdrawn all their money from them because of this.
  • jamesd
    jamesd Posts: 26,103 Forumite
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    edited 4 March 2017 at 10:15PM
    That loan was under old terms where consumers lent to Saving Stream and they then lent to the borrower. If I recall correctly the purchase prices for the two properties involved were registered at the Land Registry for a total of about £1.45 million shortly before the higher valuation was given.

    The differences between how the loan was described in the promotion to lenders and the apparent facts is what initially caused me to decide that the descriptions couldn't be relied upon and to abandon my plans to use this platform.

    I'm glad that Saving Stream have repaid all of the money that they borrowed but that doesn't do anything to help with the description issues.

    Note that new loans there are not first to the Saving Stream platform, don't have their corporate guarantee as this one originally did and also don't have the undertaking to pay interest in default that this one had.
  • masonic
    masonic Posts: 23,262 Forumite
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    edited 4 March 2017 at 10:30PM
    jamesd wrote: »
    I'm glad that Saving Stream have repaid all of the money that they borrowed but that doesn't do anything to help with the description issues.

    Note that new loans there are not first to the Saving Stream platform, don't have their corporate guarantee as this one originally did and also don't have the undertaking to pay interest in default that this one had.
    I completely agree, and I think this loan was a special case because SS was vulnerable to legal challenge if any investor suffered a loss, given the misrepresentations in the loan particulars. SS maintained that the old terms did not preclude them passing on losses to investors if the sale of the security did not cover all of the capital, so loans made under the old terms are not any safer than the newer loans IMHO.
  • masonic
    masonic Posts: 23,262 Forumite
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    This will be a very useful resource for those still involved with the platform:
    http://p2pindependentforum.com/thread/8133/ss-negative-term-watch

    A little under 25% of SavingStream's entire loan book is currently in arrears.
  • agent69
    agent69 Posts: 343 Forumite
    First Anniversary First Post Combo Breaker Debt-free and Proud!
    masonic wrote: »
    A little under 25% of SavingStream's entire loan book is currently in arrears.

    But that doesn't stop people queuing up to buy them on the SM.
  • economic
    economic Posts: 3,002 Forumite
    agent69 wrote: »
    But that doesn't stop people queuing up to buy them on the SM.



    people are desperate for fixed interest. I think they mis-price the loans. given the large number of loans in arrears already 12% may not look attractive anymore. Explain that to the average joe lender. I bet most don't even read the details/particulaurs/valuation reports. I know I didn't.
  • JohnRo
    JohnRo Posts: 2,887 Forumite
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    Figures pulled from spreadsheet for those interested.

    By my reckoning SBL interest (at 1% a month) is costing Lendy just under a quarter of a million quid a month as it stands currently. Alarm bells are ringing.
    [B]Asset Details       Drawn  Asset value      Loan Value       % pa    LTV[/B]
  
In Default          Yes    £11,410,000.00   £7,785,500.00    12.00%  68.23%

Interest Accruing   Yes    £19,610,000.00   £13,123,000.00   12.00%  66.92%

Interest Serviced   Yes    £47,445,000.00   £24,689,750.00   12.00%  52.04%

Interest on Account Yes    £309,218,433.00  £131,850,153.00  11.66%  42.64%

    I can keep posting updates every few weeks or months if folks are interested.
    'We don't need to be smarter than the rest; we need to be more disciplined than the rest.' - WB
  • bigadaj
    bigadaj Posts: 11,531 Forumite
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    JohnRo wrote: »
    Figures pulled from spreadsheet for those interested.

    By my reckoning SBL interest (at 1% a month) is costing Lendy just under a quarter of a million quid a month as it stands currently. Alarm bells are ringing.
    [B]Asset Details       Drawn  Asset value      Loan Value       % pa    LTV[/B]
  
In Default          Yes    £11,410,000.00   £7,785,500.00    12.00%  68.23%

Interest Accruing   Yes    £19,610,000.00   £13,123,000.00   12.00%  66.92%

Interest Serviced   Yes    £47,445,000.00   £24,689,750.00   12.00%  52.04%

Interest on Account Yes    £309,218,433.00  £131,850,153.00  11.66%  42.64%

    I can keep posting updates every few weeks or months if folks are interested.

    Things don't look good to me but they have the advantage of a very active loan book, with many other platforms either having infrequent deals or low sums.

    Assuming they are taking 0.5% a month in the currently serviced loans then taht would be enough to subsidise the default interest currently.

    Defaults so far have been covered by provision fund andor sale of security, soemthing will defeat soon with investor loss of capital and it'll be interesting to see how hat is handled.
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