Car Insurance Question RE "locked boot"

Hi,

I am trying to sort out the aftermath of a car break in with my insurance company and there have been a couple of issues which basically means they are not going to pay out (I can go into detail on this if needed but I am not sure if relevant at this stage).

My question revolves around the definition of a locked boot - my insurance says that it will not pay out for items taken in a car break in unless they are in a locked glove box or boot. However, my car is an SUV (Honda CRV) and as such the boot is part of the car (i.e. it is possible to reach over the back seats into the boot). There is a small removable "parcel" shelf that I always have closed but this would offer no resistance to anyone wanting to access the boot if they broke in. Therefore, in my view, the policy cannot apply to my particular car as there is no way I could ever lock the boot in such a way to isolate it from the car. The implication is that the glove box and boot when mentioned in the policy are being viewed as separate "secure" areas in the car that are not accessible without much effort on the part of someone breaking in.

I realise that this is probably something that has been legally tested etc but to me it seems a very strange area of the policy and feels as though it basically results in my policy being worthless based on my choice of car, as I can never satisfy the requirements of the policy to be covered unless I have a car where the boot is a lockable separate area in the car.

Can anyone shed some light on this? I am looking into things in this much detail due to the issues I am having (and again willing to go into depth on this if anyone needs that information) but at the moment I am trying to find any specific areas of the policy wording that could be used for contesting the decision to not pay out.

Thanks!
Ryan
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Comments

  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
    When you have any problems with an insurance claim then you should use the complaints procedure with a view to escalating to the FOS for their adjudication.

    The complaints procedure will be set out in the policy.

    Once you have submitted the complaint and they have replied (or ignored you for 8 weeks) you can then escalate to the FOS for their adjudication at no cost to you
  • Aretnap
    Aretnap Posts: 5,208 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    rdflynn wrote: »
    My question revolves around the definition of a locked boot - my insurance says that it will not pay out for items taken in a car break in unless they are in a locked glove box or boot. However, my car is an SUV (Honda CRV) and as such the boot is part of the car (i.e. it is possible to reach over the back seats into the boot). There is a small removable "parcel" shelf that I always have closed but this would offer no resistance to anyone wanting to access the boot if they broke in. Therefore, in my view, the policy cannot apply to my particular car as there is no way I could ever lock the boot in such a way to isolate it from the car.
    That would be one interpretation of the clause. However the other interpretation would be that if your car doesn't have a place where luggage can be stored securely then theft from the car would not be covered, full stop. You'd either have to not leave valuables in the car, or take the risk of having them stolen. I think that the latter would be the natural interpretation.
    I realise that this is probably something that has been legally tested etc but to me it seems a very strange area of the policy and feels as though it basically results in my policy being worthless based on my choice of car, as I can never satisfy the requirements of the policy to be covered unless I have a car where the boot is a lockable separate area in the car.
    Of course it doesn't make the policy worthless - it would still protect you if your possessions were destroyed in a fire, or indeed stolen from anywhere other than a car. It just means that the policy (possibly) wouldn't cover theft in that particular situation.

    That said the wording of the exclusion is important - does it simply say "locked boot", or does it say "locked boot or concealed luggage compartment" or some other form of words? I can't find an Ombudsman decision in a case exactly similar to yours on a quick search, but cases 35/5 and 35/6 here and case 63/8 here may be of some guidance.
  • rs65
    rs65 Posts: 5,682 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post Combo Breaker
    rdflynn wrote: »
    My question revolves around the definition of a locked boot - my insurance says that it will not pay out for items taken in a car break in unless they are in a locked glove box or boot.
    Mine says similar but must be hidden from view in a closed glove compartment or locked boot.

    Nothing there about it being isolated from the car.

    Your interpretation would exclude all SUVs and hatchbacks and even saloons with split rear seats. I don't think that is the intention.

    The intention is to avoid claims for belongings left on the seat, in view or in a luggage compartment without the shelf in place.
  • Aretnap wrote: »
    That would be one interpretation of the clause. However the other interpretation would be that if your car doesn't have a place where luggage can be stored securely then theft from the car would not be covered, full stop. You'd either have to not leave valuables in the car, or take the risk of having them stolen. I think that the latter would be the natural interpretation.


    Of course it doesn't make the policy worthless - it would still protect you if your possessions were destroyed in a fire, or indeed stolen from anywhere other than a car. It just means that the policy (possibly) wouldn't cover theft in that particular situation.

    That said the wording of the exclusion is important - does it simply say "locked boot", or does it say "locked boot or concealed luggage compartment" or some other form of words? I can't find an Ombudsman decision in a case exactly similar to yours on a quick search, but cases 35/5 and 35/6 ... may be of some guidance.

    Thanks for this advice. Sorry if I get the "threading" wrong on replies - not used this forum before!

    The wording on the policy document is as follows:
    "possessions stolen from your unattended vehicle, but only if the vehicle is locked and your possessions are hidden from view in a closed glove compartment or locked boot"

    I saw some of the cases you link to, which is why I am pursuing this rather than just giving up on the situation. I feel that my case falls under a similar area as 35/6 (albeit with some differences). Thanks for the newer information, I had not seen that and it is useful.
  • rs65 wrote: »
    Mine says similar but must be hidden from view in a closed glove compartment or locked boot.

    Nothing there about it being isolated from the car.

    Your interpretation would exclude all SUVs and hatchbacks and even saloons with split rear seats. I don't think that is the intention.

    The intention is to avoid claims for belongings left on the seat, in view or in a luggage compartment without the shelf in place.

    Thanks for the reply. I agree the intention of the claim wording is not to exclude certain types of car and to avoid having people claim for silly things like leaving a purse/wallet in open view. But as I have replied, the wording of the policy does not mention a luggage compartment or shelf - it simply says locked boot, like yours. I suspect that this language has never been challenged as the reasonable interpretation is as you have said. However, due to what has happened I am looking for anything to try and use for the challenge.

    I could go into a lot more ranty detail but I suspect this is not the right place to do so :)
  • System
    System Posts: 178,093 Community Admin
    Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    If goods on view are more vulnerable than goods in a separate locked partition, then why shouldn't premiums cost more or claims be excluded?

    You factor in the pros and cons when deciding what kind of car to have.
  • forgotmyname
    forgotmyname Posts: 32,549 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper First Post
    Were the items hidden from view? Using a parcel shelf or luggage cover?
    Censorship Reigns Supreme in Troll City...

  • takman
    takman Posts: 3,876 Forumite
    Combo Breaker First Post
    rdflynn wrote: »
    Thanks for the reply. I agree the intention of the claim wording is not to exclude certain types of car and to avoid having people claim for silly things like leaving a purse/wallet in open view. But as I have replied, the wording of the policy does not mention a luggage compartment or shelf - it simply says locked boot, like yours. I suspect that this language has never been challenged as the reasonable interpretation is as you have said. However, due to what has happened I am looking for anything to try and use for the challenge.

    I could go into a lot more ranty detail but I suspect this is not the right place to do so :)

    I think you need to go into some more detail of why your asking this question.

    I have seen similar wording on my own car insurance policies and I've always interpreted the wording to mean the goods are out of view in the boot and the boot is locked so cannot be simply opended by a theif to look inside.

    Most cars have a parcel shelf that separates the car from the boot and the strength of this shouldn't mean the insurance company don't pay out (unless you didn't put it in at all).

    Also some cars have a door inbetween the seats to allow access to the boot from the car. I wouldn't expect this door to mean you cannot claim on the insurance for things stolen from the boot.

    Most thefts from cars are because the thief can see the items and can quickly break in grab them and escape. If you put something in the boot the thief cannot see and even if the parcel shelf is very thin and weak. If they cannot see something potentially valuable they are very unlikely to break into the car go over the back seats, break the parcel shelf then root around in the boot.
  • Thanks for all the replies. I wanted to clarify some points as I fear that the reason I'm asking this might be misconstrued somewhat.

    To be clear - I am not trying to find a loophole in order to claim against my policy because of me doing something clearly and obviously out of the policy requirements. For instance, I can clearly see why I would not be able to claim if I had left a bag on full display on the front seat or something similar.

    My contention is that I had a bag that had been put into the rear footwell (i.e. behind the driver's seat) that was covered by clothing (I can see why this is problematic). The bag was not visible from the outside of the car as it was covered. Also (and again I can see why some of the following points are problematic): a. I have privacy glass round the entire back windows of the car, b. we were parked in a car park under a 5 star hotel in a very posh part of London, c. the car park is run by a reputable company that should have had attendants on the premises and d. was parked near the attendants office with motion detecting lights in the car park so any movement should have been picked up.

    It turns out that the attendant (only one is on per night) are shared amongst 7 other car parks in the area so they are never actually present in any given car park unless there is a specific reason to do so (i.e. someone's car is broken into, or a homeless person is sleeping in the lift). The CCTV is only pointed at the car park payment machine - there are no other cameras. The local police have repeatedly asked the car park owners to guard their car park as many people have had their cars broken into (we only found this out when we had the police officer contact us after the event) and, more worryingly, the police know enough about what has been happening to have a complete idea of the MO of the people doing the break-ins (i.e. the criminals know the shift patterns of the attendants, they know the vans that drop the attendants off at the start of their shifts etc) AND the police know the MO of attack - they only go for cars where the engine is warm as they know that the occupants have recently left the car and will not be back for a while. They do not target based on contents - they are speculative (i.e. they break into anything with a warm bonnet in the hopes of finding something).

    This is why I am trying to find something - anything - to contest this, as I feel that even if I had a partition boot with no ingress potential from the main body of the car I would still have been a target. The police officer said as much in his communication with me, as did the attending officers on the night - basically, wrong place wrong time. They still would have smashed the back window and rooted through the car (and obviously then be able to gain access to the boot from the main car with a boot release switch or similar) no matter what as they knew they could get away with it as there were no attendants and no risk of us coming back within a short time period. As I can't (to my knowledge) easily claim liability from the car park company (as they have the disclaimers that they bear no responsibility etc etc), I am looking to see if there is any way I can get the insurance company to look at my case again.

    I appreciate that I may be grasping at straws, and apologies if I have confused anyone. I am not naive enough to think that I have found some never before seen loophole in my policy, and I am not trying to get a situation where I can sue someone for millions. I am just immensely frustrated that it appears that my insurance policy is rather worthless when I needed it most (I have seen that other insurers, such as Hiscox, do not seem to have the same exceptions in their policy - and yes, I will be moving my policy over to them if that is the case).

    Once again, thank you all for the information and the pointers towards further information. I may not be able to do anything about this and have to accept that I have basically been a bit of an idiot, but at the same time I feel very aggrieved that this situation could have been easily mitigated by the car park company simply spending a little bit of money to ensure their security was up to scratch.
  • lisyloo
    lisyloo Posts: 29,609 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Anniversary First Post
    To be clear - I am not trying to find a loophole in order to claim against my policy because of me doing something clearly and obviously out of the policy requirements.

    I think you are.
    The policy requirements are boot or locked compartment.
    A footwell is not covered, simple as that.

    I would highly recommend hiscox.
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