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Should I pay PCN

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  • AJRawlins
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    I have also today received another e-mail from DW customer service stating they have forwarded it to their GM and if he is able to provide evidence that I was at the club on the date of the ticket then he will contact me to discuss, so will not hold my breath.
  • Northlakes
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    AJRawlins wrote: »
    Sorry now I am confused again, so do I go with the advice above or the appeal i had already written out about grace period.
    Also after reading yet more threads on here I come across one mentioning date served. The event took place on 01/09 and date of issue on NTK is 08/09 and I recived the NTK on 13/09

    The NTK was served in time and PFA 2012 was used so we forget these points now. PE are claiming keeper liability using POFA.

    You're in danger of 'putting the cart before the horse' and over worrying about the initial appeal. It will be turned down PE without question as all they care about is one thing, getting the money with minimum costs to themselves.
    Don't ever think that PE give up, it's very rare unless their landowners overrule them.

    CM's argument is sound over the forbidding signage and this will be used in your later POPLA appeal, along with grace periods and any other valid appeal point. Have you found the landowner? Advertising consent? Get these done before worrying over later issues. One step at a time.
    REVENGE IS A DISH BETTER SERVED COLD
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,669 Forumite
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    AJRawlins wrote: »
    Sorry now I am confused again, so do I go with the advice above or the appeal i had already written out about grace period.
    Also after reading yet more threads on here I come across one mentioning date served. The event took place on 01/09 and date of issue on NTK is 08/09 and I recived the NTK on 13/09
    That's in time, as Northlakes posted and beat me to it!

    I agree with Northlakes, complain to the landowner URGENTLY as loads of PE PCNs get cancelled that way. And just send the appeal to PE (online, as 'registered keeper') that you planned to send and do not cross bridges you are not at yet.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Northlakes
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    AJRawlins wrote: »
    I have also today received another e-mail from DW customer service stating they have forwarded it to their GM and if he is able to provide evidence that I was at the club on the date of the ticket then he will contact me to discuss, so will not hold my breath.

    Great, hope this comes about.
    REVENGE IS A DISH BETTER SERVED COLD
  • AJRawlins
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    No landowner found yet as DW have stated they don't have that information. I will go ahead and appeal online and wait for the POPLA code, many thanks for all the help.
  • AJRawlins
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    Here is an update on the current situation.
    Have received an e-mail from the store manager confirming my son is a member and was in the club on the day of PCN,and also that he was not informed off the new system so could not have entered registration of vehicle.

    So now the question is I am still waiting to here back from PE about my appeal, do I contact them again and forward this e-mail to them as evidence or wait and supply this in the POPLA if appeal rejected.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,669 Forumite
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    I would email them to add it to the appeal and say you await confirmation of cancellation:

    info@parkingeye.co.uk



    HTH
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • AJRawlins
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    Thanks I will do as soon as possible
  • AJRawlins
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    After doing this I have got an automated response back stating that that e-mail is for general enquiries only so will I have to write to them as well. This is what it says to do in the auto response.
  • AJRawlins
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    So finally I have received my notice of appeal rejected and been issued with a POPLA code, so below is my initial POPLA draft with omissions for obvious reasons. Please advise on the structure, thanks.

    POPLA Ref No.xxxxxxxxx
    I am the registered keeper and I wish to appeal a recent parking charge from Parking Eye Ltd,. The charge is levied despite the driver not being identified and vehicle legally on land.
    1. The vehicle was indeed on the land legally as is backed up by the word document included, which is an e-mail from the General Manager of xxxxxxxx , of whose members the car park is for the use of. Parking Eye Ltd. Were sent a copy of this e-mail but have obviously ignored it.
    2. The minimum grace period was not allowed by the operator:.
    Vehicle entered car park at xxxx and left at xxxx,
    British Parking Association Code of Practice 13.1 – 13.4 states:
    13 Grace periods
    13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters your car park but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a reasonable period without
    having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.
    13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still
    allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.
    13.3 You should be prepared to tell us the specific grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is.
    13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end
    of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.
    3. Insufficient signage.
    Parking Eye Ltd. state that the terms and conditions of parking are displayed at the entrance to the car park but their own images of the vehicle included on the PCN disprove this because no signage is visable in said images. The keeper made a special visit to the car park to ascertain the positioning and quality of the sign. They are positioned further inside the entrance and would only be visable to the driver if they happened to be driving a convertible with the roof down and quite clearly this is not the case in the images. Unreadable signage breaches Appendix B of the BPA Code of Practice which states that terms on entrance signs must be clearly readable without a driver having to turn away from the road ahead. A Notice is not imported into the contract unless brought home so prominently that the party 'must' have known of it and agreed terms beforehand. Also because of this visit it is noted that the sign is a forbidding one, so no contract can be made with the driver.
    4. No standing or authority to pursue charges nor form contracts with drivers.
    Parking Eye Ltd. are required to provide a full copy of the contemporaneous, signed & dated (unredacted) contract with the landowner. Any contract is not compliant with the requirements set out in the BPA Code of Practice and does not allow them to charge and issue proceedings for this sum for this alleged contravention in this car park. In order to refute this it will not be sufficient for the Operator merely to supply a site agreement or witness statement, as these do not show sufficient detail (such as the restrictions, charges and revenue sharing arrangements agreed with any landholder). In order to comply with paragraph 7 of the BPA Code of Practice, a non-landowner private parking company must have a specifically-worded contract with the landowner otherwise there is no authority.

    As Parking Eye Ltd. do not have proprietary interest in the land, I demand that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner that authorises them to offer contracts for parking in their name, issue Parking Charge Notices and take legal action in their name for breach of contract. I do not believe they have such authority.

    Parking Eye Ltd. has no title in this land and no BPA compliant landowner contract assigning rights to charge and enforce in the courts in their own right.




    I take it they will have the PCN details from PE or do I need to include the photos on the PCN
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