Side extension layout ideas.

martindow · 17 October 2016 at 10:23AM

Doozergirl wrote: »

I hope your planning authority are open to the idea of building on the boundary. Mine will not allow anything under a metre from the boundary for fear of potential 'terracing effect'.

My council also refused on this basis even though half the buildings in the road had extensions closer than this.

OP you need to look at your local authority's web site to see their planning guidelines and maybe have an informal talk with a planning officer to see how likely they would be to accept your scheme.

Doozergirl · 17 October 2016 at 10:30AM

ic wrote: »

You'll probably need a support column where the original rear corner of the kitchen is - which will eat a little into the worktop run and the width of the patio door opening. Perhaps however you could have goal-post supports instead.

Well spotted! There's no probably about it. The house won't stand up with this design. It will need to be quite substantial support on the corner as you have to prevent flex in the structure as well as simply supporting it. It needs to be in the shape of an L. Unless we have a lottery winning budget again.

OP, where is the original corner of the house? Is it between dining room and kitchen? If so, what is above kitchen?

casper_g · 17 October 2016 at 2:12PM

Doozergirl wrote: »

OP, where is the original corner of the house? Is it between dining room and kitchen? If so, what is above kitchen?

The protruding part of the house containing the kitchen is part of the original building, with a bedroom upstairs. The layout on the first floor is roughly as shown:

All walls separating bedroom 3, the bathroom, the toilet and the landing are original timber studwork covered with lath and plaster. I believe the kitchen/dining room wall is probably the same but I'll double check.

casper_g · 20 October 2016 at 2:29PM

Having checked, the wall between the kitchen and dining room does seem to be solid.

I've been having a read ofApproved Document A to get a better idea of what we're up against (acknowledging the need for a professional advice on the final design, of course).

I think we can modify the sizes and positions of the window and doors in the back wall so they comply with Diagram 14, so I guess this should help.

We could also leave part of the original exterior wall in place near the corner of the original house to form a buttress of there at the end of the new worktop, if needed.

What worries me mostly is the restriction in Diagram 14 that the width of openings shouldn't exceed 3m. What are the implications of exceeding this size, as obviously it can be done. 3m just wouldn't work, it needs to be about 4.5m if not 5m. I guess this is where some serious structural engineering input would be needed, and we might end up with a goalpost frame or something?

Doozergirl · 20 October 2016 at 3:02PM

If you're going to the detail of structural loading then you need to consult the person doing your drawings.

You just need to bear in mind that corners are really important structures where there is an upstairs and that you need to leave at least the 660mm from the outside edge of each existing corner wall to support.

I find it really hard to work out the structure of the proposed plans without old and new right next to each other. There's not one measurement either, which makes it almost impossible to advise.

casper_g · 21 October 2016 at 8:47AM

Doozergirl wrote: »

If you're going to the detail of structural loading then you need to consult the person doing your drawings.

I completely agree. We'll certainly do that, but at this stage we're only really thinking about concepts and feasibility (mostly in order to motivate ourselves to save up the money!).

Doozergirl wrote: »

You just need to bear in mind that corners are really important structures where there is an upstairs and that you need to leave at least the 660mm from the outside edge of each existing corner wall to support.

I find it really hard to work out the structure of the proposed plans without old and new right next to each other. There's not one measurement either, which makes it almost impossible to advise.

I really appreciate your thoughts, so with that in mind here are the proposed and existing plans as in my original post, placed side by side:

And here's the kitchen area tweaked to keep a 660mm return at each corner (new and existing), with some dimensions:

ellie27 · 21 October 2016 at 9:15AM

You have a small shower room and a small toilet, both separated by a utility room.

I would think it best to combine the 2 toilets to make 1 nice decent sized proper bathroom, you do have the space for it and I think it would be much nicer than 2 half-sized tiny ones

Doozergirl · 21 October 2016 at 10:26AM

Very quickly, you need a .67 on the corner back wall of the original house as well.

The extension is only single storey so you don't necessarily need the same bearings on openings. The smaller window is going to wnd up on the right, I suspect.

I agree with everyone else who says to incorporate the shower and loo.

It's a very big space. At the moment, I don't feel the proportions are quite right and the sofa area seems wasted. I am concerned that the wall between the kitchen and dining room plays some structural part though.

I think your first call should be to a structural engineer to set your design limitations. You can take advice from the visit and then have the calcs done once you know what the limitations are or how the structural wishlist affects the budget.

casper_g · 21 October 2016 at 11:34AM

Thank you to everyone for the thoughts. I've played about with the layout as follows:

I've swapped the bifold doors and the window over - this means the existing back wall of the house can have a 670mm return on both sides.
I moved the dining area to the new extension, in front of the bifold doors, and put the kitchen in the area where the existing kitchen is. To make this space work better for the kitchen, I've got rid of the existing door to the family room.
I moved the door to the utility area around to the corner where I had a sofa. This had two advantages I hadn't considered previously:
- The utility room door could be glazed which would mean a potentially dark area would benefit from borrowed light from the velux in the utility room.
- The wall in the dining area could have a nice big Welsh dresser, something which will go down well with my other half.
Instead of the sofa I thought we could put in an armchair or two on the right wall, which would be better positioned to sit and chat while others are cooking.

I couldn't think how to combine the loo and shower rooms, other than by just making the new shower room bigger and putting a toilet in there. However, the existing downstairs loo under the stairs is in good condition and in a convenient location. It seems a shame to rip it out, and a bit pointless having two downstairs loos.

The possibility that the wall between the existing kitchen and dining room is performing a structural role (beyond supporting the floor above) is a worry. When we are closer to moving forward with this we'll make it a priority to discuss this with a structural engineer. Thanks for flagging this, Doozergirl.

There are obviously too many unknowns in terms of the structural works, standard of finish in the kitchen/utility/shower room*, choice of flooring** etc. to price this even approximately, but can anyone suggest a ballpark worst case scenario?

*Kitchen would likely be DIY Kitchens stuff, installed by a local independent kitchen fitter.
**Slate or limestone tiles, perhaps.

Side extension layout ideas.

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