MoneySaving Poll: Have benefits been cut too far or not far enough?

135

Comments

  • jamesd
    jamesd Posts: 26,103 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    edited 23 March 2016 at 10:10PM
    You have to look for jobs - that don't exist. You have to show you have applied for jobs, every two weeks. Even jobs which you have no hope of getting but because they are the only ones going - you still have to waste your time applying. That is what is going on in the Jobcentres up and down the country.
    Then there are cases like the woman who wanted to work in looking after animals or similar caring and refused to take available warehouse worker jobs. Her choice but does someone who refuses to take available work merit means tested benefits for those who can't find work?

    What about those who refuse to move to areas where there are jobs available for them? Or who refuse to retrain or get say basic computer or literacy and numeracy knowledge because say they didn't attend secondary school at all even though they were in the UK and able to?

    What about those who want to live in high cost areas long term instead of moving to cheaper areas to cut costs for them and those paying their benefits? You know, the sort of thing that working people or the retired might well do just out of common sense if they were short of money. And what is happening to some extent to pensioners in need of care, shipped to care homes in cheaper areas?

    There really are lots of people who simply can't find work even if they were willing to move, for a wide range of reasons, and there's nothing at all wrong with them getting benefits, that's what I hope most people would agree the working age benefit are at a minimum expected to provide for.
  • Murphybear
    Murphybear Posts: 7,259 Forumite
    First Anniversary Name Dropper Photogenic First Post
    jamesd wrote: »
    Then there are cases like the woman who wanted to work in looking after animals or similar caring and refused to take available warehouse worker jobs. Her choice but does someone who refuses to take available work merit means tested benefits for those who can't find work?

    What about those who refuse to move to areas where there are jobs available for them? Or who refuse to retrain or get say basic computer or literacy and numeracy knowledge because say they didn't attend secondary school at all even though they were in the UK and able to?

    What about those who want to live in high cost areas long term instead of moving to cheaper areas to cut costs for them and those paying their benefits? You know, the sort of thing that working people or the retired might well do just out of common sense if they were short of money. And what is happening to some extent to pensioners in need of care, shipped to care homes in cheaper areas?

    There really are lots of people who simply can't find work even if they were willing to move, for a wide range of reasons, and there's nothing at all wrong with them getting benefits, that's what I hope most people would agree the working age benefit are at a minimum expected to provide for.

    It may sound like a good plan - moving people on benefits to a cheaper area. The practicalities are a little different. Who is going to pay for the moving costs? Who is going to find cheap rented accommodation for people on benefits? There is already huge competition for affordable housing for working tenants. I don't think this idea will work easily.
  • In reply to "have some compassion"
    We cannot afford compassion until the Country is free of debt, with the debt clock for the UK this morning at almost £1.6 Trillion and still rising and a debt of £118,000 for each of your children or Grandchildren what sort of a legacy is this to leave behind.
    I was born in the late 20's a child through the war and rationing, I still believe that I have had the best period to live my life in/through.
  • rinabean
    rinabean Posts: 359 Forumite
    First Anniversary Combo Breaker
    geoffhead wrote: »
    In reply to "have some compassion"
    We cannot afford compassion until the Country is free of debt, with the debt clock for the UK this morning at almost £1.6 Trillion and still rising and a debt of £118,000 for each of your children or Grandchildren what sort of a legacy is this to leave behind.
    I was born in the late 20's a child through the war and rationing, I still believe that I have had the best period to live my life in/through.

    Do you know what you're advocating for? The eradication of disabled people has begun but they've yet to start on old people. I guess you'll be singing a different tune when they do. But remember, you said no room for compassion, economy first!

    I'm not exaggerating by the way: we're actually the subject of a UN inquiry because of the way disabled people are being treated. But goodness, what's that in the face of national debt (which every country has, yet still most manage to stop short of killing disabled people)
  • jamesd
    jamesd Posts: 26,103 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Murphybear wrote: »
    Who is going to pay for the moving costs? Who is going to find cheap rented accommodation for people on benefits?
    Who is paying for the moving costs of the pensioners who are being moved and finding cheaper places for them? The local authorities that they come from, I assume, since it's that local authority that had the cost before and is saving the money with the move.

    If it's OK to do it for pensioners, why wouldn't it be OK to do it for younger unemployed people, particularly those who say have a job offer in the destination area and haven't found work after say two years where they are?
    Murphybear wrote: »
    There is already huge competition for affordable housing for working tenants.
    For the pensioners there are care home places either there already or that are built, either by the sending local authority or a housing association with assurance from the sending councils that rent will be paid by them if necessary to cover the construction costs.

    Plenty of places where land and building costs are far, far cheaper than in London and much of the SE, say the Welsh valleys or NE England. Those valleys could do with an influx of younger people if the tales of all the youngsters leaving are true. Likely to get a bedsit for more like a few hundred a month in those places than the few hundred a week it'd be in London. That'd go some way to pay for training courses, job subsidies and moving costs.
  • missbiggles1
    missbiggles1 Posts: 17,481 Forumite
    First Post Combo Breaker
    jamesd wrote: »
    There's a big difference between the two: the state pension has been accrued by those who receive it because of all of their contributions to NI over their working lives.

    I agree with much of what you've written but I have to correct you on this point. People who have never worked a day in their lives will also be claiming a full basic pension if they've been getting NI credits through claiming benefits for the appropriate number of years.

    I'm a pensioner myself but not all of us get our SRP becuase we've paid contributions throughout our working lives.
  • jamesd
    jamesd Posts: 26,103 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary
    Yes, that's true, so I suppose we could distinguish between those who get the state pension because of contributions while working and who got credits for various things instead. I expect that most did at least some paid work so could get something in that case but it'd be moot because as a society at the moment we have decided that the level of Pension Credit should provide a minimum income of £151.20 a week, plus possible Housing Benefit and a range of others.

    So I suppose that means that the level of Pension Credit is something that might be thrown into the pot as something that some might believe is too high or too low.
  • missbiggles1
    missbiggles1 Posts: 17,481 Forumite
    First Post Combo Breaker
    Murphybear wrote: »
    It may sound like a good plan - moving people on benefits to a cheaper area. The practicalities are a little different. Who is going to pay for the moving costs? Who is going to find cheap rented accommodation for people on benefits? There is already huge competition for affordable housing for working tenants. I don't think this idea will work easily.

    There are actually parts of the UK where there isn't much of a waiting list for social housing and there are also LLs who specialise in letting to people on benefits so I don't think that this need be a problem really.
  • 10pence
    10pence Posts: 348 Forumite
    HappyMJ wrote: »
    Cut everything...there's plenty of food banks which you can only visit twice a year and plenty of hostels if you really need a bed for the night. Oversubscribed. Someone not working could seek help from family and friends... Not everyone has family or friends if they really need something I'm sure they'll find ways and means to get what they need (yes I know-they'll turn to crime). That'll soon get everyone out working and saving for a retirement. I admire your idealistic thoughts. Unfortunately we live in a real world with real people and all that entails.

    People that are not capable of working...i.e those that are genuinely disabled should be given the equivalent of minimum wage as if they were working So that's 35 hours a week at £6.70 an hour. £234.50 a week. Much more manageable than £70 a week.
    If receipt of PIP or DLA they can get more than £70/wk, plus they can work too as it's none means tested.

    Food banks operate differently; use to work in welfare rights with the Citizens Advice Bureau: was attached to two large CABs and worked from four food banks.
    These food banks had a rule of 3 vouchers per crisis. However, it was very loosely monitored and generally they would just give out the food as it helped support the stats that foodbank use was increasing.
    Referrals from the CAB again wasn't monitored, vouchers given out with no checks or verification of facts done whatsoever; the stance of the CAB was to be neutral and not 'police' the vouchers . Fraud was rampant, in several cases we had people collect vouchers only to be seen selling them later in pubs or on one occasion have a food bank send a photo on a person who had used multiple IDs to obtain vouchers, informing all referral agencies that this person will not be allowed any vouchers. Our CABs still issued them.

    Since the inception of the 'benefits cap', the CAB would ask every client or any one living with them, if they had any disabilities/illnesses as this would help circumvent the cap. The most tenuous of afflictions was jumped on and applications for any and every benefit made. This would only increase wait times for legitimate claimants. This is also increased the sense of self-entitlement that some claimants have.

    Most people when discussing benefits focus on the money and ignore the pathway benefits that some claimants can receive: housing benefit, council tax reduction, NHS costs, travel costs, help with debt reduction schemes water sure, trust funds that most people who work or earn just above a certain threshold cannot claim and therefore suffer even more.

    The benefit system is broken, whether people want to admit it or not - and there is no malice in stating that fact. It needs to be fairer. Personally, I would like to see more means testing in benefits; currently you can claim Working Tax Credits if your income is below a threshold but have thousands upon thousands in savings. People working enough hours for tax credits but no more. Child benefit and child tax credits capped at two children: present system encourages !!!!less breeding and single parent families as they get more for being single than a couple.
    I've never understood how people in receipt of high rate DLA/PIP can claim carers allowance for each other when stating they cannot care for them self hence the confusion.

    Having worked in welfare rights you would think I'd have a more sympathetic view, unfortunately the opposite is true because of these abuses, attitudes of some claimants, it's encouragement that you're better on benefits than working and the general unfairness of the system who do the right thing and work, or make attempts to better themselves.
  • fredandwilma
    fredandwilma Posts: 1,251 Forumite
    Chutzpah Haggler I won, I won, I won! Rampant Recycler Debt-free and Proud!
    geoffhead wrote: »
    In reply to "have some compassion"
    We cannot afford compassion until the Country is free of debt, with the debt clock for the UK this morning at almost £1.6 Trillion and still rising and a debt of £118,000 for each of your children or Grandchildren what sort of a legacy is this to leave behind.
    I was born in the late 20's a child through the war and rationing, I still believe that I have had the best period to live my life in/through.


    You've been very fortunate then. At almost 90 years of age, you have received state pension for 30+ years.

    Still driving too.
    Fred - Where's your get up and go?

    Barney - It just got up and went.



    Carpe diem
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 342.9K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.6K Spending & Discounts
  • 234.9K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 607.5K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 172.9K Life & Family
  • 247.6K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards