Bankers vs Witan

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  • Voyager2002
    Voyager2002 Posts: 15,244
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    That's nothing - I have 27 IT's (and nothing else) in my ISA ...

    Aberdeen Asian Income Fund Ltd. AAIF
    Bankers Inv Trust BNKR
    Aberdeen Diversified Inc and Grth Trust ADIG
    City of London Inv Trust CTY
    Dunedin Income Growth Inv Trust DIG
    Edinburgh Inv Trust EDIN
    European Assets Trust EAT
    F&C Capital & Income Inv Trust FCI
    Henderson Far East Income Ltd. HFEL
    Invesco Income Growth Trust IVI
    JPMorgan European Investment Trust JETI
    JPM Global Mkts Emerging Income Trust JEMI
    JPMorgan Claverhouse Inv Trust JCH
    Law Debenture Corp. LWDB
    Lowland Investment Co. LWI
    Mercantile Inv Trust MRC
    Merchants Trust MRCH
    Murray Income Trust MUT
    Murray International Trust MYI
    Perpetual Income & Growth Inv Trust PLI
    Schroder Income Growth Fund SCF
    Schroder Oriental Income Fund SOI
    Scottish American Inv Company SCAM
    Seneca Global Income & Growth Trust SIGT
    Standard Life Equity Income Trust SLET
    Value and Income Trust VIN
    Temple Bar Inv Trust TMPL

    I hold 16 (and nothing else) in my SIPP

    Aberdeen Asian Income Fund Ltd. AAIF
    Aberdeen Diversified Inc and Grth Trust ADIG
    City of London Inv Trust CTY
    Dunedin Income Growth Inv Trust DIG
    F&C Capital & Income Inv Trust FCI
    Henderson Far East Income Ltd. HFEL
    Invesco Income Growth Trust IVI
    JPM Global Mkts Emerging Income Trust JEMI
    JPMorgan European Investment Trust JETI
    Merchants Trust MRCH
    Murray Income Trust MUT
    Murray International Trust MYI
    Scottish American Inv Company SCAM
    Schroder Income Growth Fund SCF
    Standard Life Equity Income Trust SLET
    Temple Bar Inv Trust TMPL
    Troy Income & Growth Trust TIGT

    Equal weightings in each account, SIPP is worth approx 2 x the ISA.

    The only holding "underwater" is ADIG in both accounts.

    I think you would achieve the same effect by holding a global ETF -- and would pay less in management fees!

    What you are doing is essentially paying the manager of one trust to decide to invest in company A rather than company B (sensible given the other holdings in the IT's portfolio) and then the manager of the next IT to invest in company B rather than company A.

    I have no idea whether active management delivers any benefits, but it seems daft to pay for something in a way that guarantees that it cannot do so.
  • ffacoffipawb
    ffacoffipawb Posts: 3,593
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    I think you would achieve the same effect by holding a global ETF -- and would pay less in management fees!

    What you are doing is essentially paying the manager of one trust to decide to invest in company A rather than company B (sensible given the other holdings in the IT's portfolio) and then the manager of the next IT to invest in company B rather than company A.

    I have no idea whether active management delivers any benefits, but it seems daft to pay for something in a way that guarantees that it cannot do so.

    Possibly but I like IT's. I hold more in the ISA as I can get a similar income each month in preparation of when I retire which should be sometime 2019-2022.

    As far as the pension is concerned, I have breached LTA already. :(
  • Audaxer
    Audaxer Posts: 3,506
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    Equal weightings in each account, SIPP is worth approx 2 x the ISA.
    That's some amount of ITs. Just out of interest do you reinvest the dividends? Do you rebalance to keep the weightings equal, and if so is that not very expensive in trading costs?
  • ffacoffipawb
    ffacoffipawb Posts: 3,593
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    Audaxer wrote: »
    That's some amount of ITs. Just out of interest do you reinvest the dividends? Do you rebalance to keep the weightings equal, and if so is that not very expensive in trading costs?

    At the moment the dividends are reinvested into new IT's as and when the accumulated value makes it a worthwhile investment. This is done until that holding has reached the same book value and then another IT is purchased. With the £20k going in on 06/04/2018 that will probably buy another 2 holdings outright bringing the number up to 29.

    Similarly with the SIPP with 16 holdings. However, I will just accumulate cash in that now (no reinvestment) as I reach 55 next year and may want to take some PCLS. Also as I have breached LTA (by accident due to the post Brexit vote surge, was well below it previously) I only effectively get 45% of any gain so no point risking any more if I keep less than half of the profits. May switch the SIPP to 5 funds (OEICS) to make management easier at some point.
  • Thrugelmir
    Thrugelmir Posts: 89,546
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    The only holding "underwater" is ADIG in both accounts.

    Not surprising if you are top slicing winners to reinvest in laggards. In a bull market.
  • MPN
    MPN Posts: 365
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    HINT, MYI, FRCL, SOI, TEM, HFEL & JPEM

    I know that's a fair few - but I'm a big fan of Global IT's and portfolio is fairly big

    Well with Bankers and Witan as well that is quite a few but the last 4 are Emerging markets and Asia. Blimey, it's nothing in comparison to ffacoffipawb's long list of IT's.
  • MPN wrote: »
    Well with Bankers and Witan as well that is quite a few but the last 4 are Emerging markets and Asia. Blimey, it's nothing in comparison to ffacoffipawb's long list of IT's.

    That list makes my 3 open ended tracker funds look very lonely.
    “So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”
  • cloud_dog
    cloud_dog Posts: 6,026
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    That list makes my 3 open ended tracker funds look very lonely.
    But probably, quite balooned in size.
    Personal Responsibility - Sad but True :D

    Sometimes.... I am like a dog with a bone
  • bostonerimus
    bostonerimus Posts: 5,617
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    edited 24 January 2018 at 1:39AM
    cloud_dog wrote: »
    But probably, quite balooned in size.

    I'm fine with a large sum invested in a broadly diversified index fund. I would be uncomfortable with the same amount in a more narrowly defined index....so a million in a total US stock market fund or a global equity fund would allow me to sleep, but a million in a FTSE 100 index fund wouldn't.
    “So we beat on, boats against the current, borne back ceaselessly into the past.”
  • StellaN
    StellaN Posts: 354
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    edited 24 January 2018 at 11:36AM
    ColdIron wrote: »
    The premium or discount is just the difference between the value of the underlining assets (the NAV) and the value of the shares of the company that holds them expressed as a percentage. When you bought Bankers (presumably at a discount) well done, you got a bunch of the underlying assets cheaper than you would have done if you bought them separately yourself. Just because they are now trading at a small premium doesn't really affect you, you still have the same number of shares and your purchase cost is unchanged. It would matter to someone who wanted to buy Bankers now as they are purchasing fewer underlying shares per pound than you did

    It depends what you want to achieve. If you want to buy at a discount, hope for the discount to narrow or even trade at a premium then jump ship and try again you are essentially trading. If you have an objective (growth, income, volatility etc) and choose something like Bankers that meets that objective then stick with it unless it stops meeting your objective or you find something that does it better

    Are you a trader hoping to exploit margins or are you a long term buy and hold investor with a portfolio that meets your needs?

    Thanks for your post ColdIron, I'm certainly not a trader so I will stick with Bankers especially as I'm happy with the formation by region and sector.

    Regarding some of the other posts, I personally wouldn't hold Bankers and Witan in my portfolio because, although different, they are also similar in some ways. I can understand holding 2 global IT's that are totally different such as Bankers and SMT but for instance dividendhero holds 5 global funds (BNKR, WTAN, FRCL, HINT & MYI) which for me as too much crossover so I can't really see the point although the last two IT's from the equity income sector have higher yields. Any views or thoughts on this?
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