Never rains but it pours. ESA stopped.

Not_Me · 3 October 2016 at 6:54PM

Yeah i know its about what you can do. i remember seeing something about a paralympic medal winner in a wheelchair said they may lose their benefits because they can move more than 200 metres in the chair.

So basically i need to get a wheelchair and wear a nappy, although the affect of wheeling a chair myself would be rather painful for my prolapsed disc and sciatica.
And i need to find employment with wheelchair access and the correct toilet facilities or where my partner can join me to help me?
If i have to leave the wheelchair at the employment how to i get to and from the employment without a chair?

I really would like to work again, its the erratic nature of my illness though. I can be halfway out the door and have to come back and spend hours on the loo.
I get quite constipated and little feeling of when i am finished or not. I wont go into that more in case your eating.

So they are telling me i am fit and should be looking for a job, but do these jobs exist?

Thanks.

TELLIT01 · 3 October 2016 at 7:00PM

Not_Me wrote: »

So they are telling me i am fit and should be looking for a job, but do these jobs exist?

Thanks.

You've spotted the flaw in the ESA system! If we had full employment then those with incapacities may stand a realistic chance of gaining employment. In the current marketplace I believe the opportunities might be rather more limited (to put it mildly).

Alice_Holt · 3 October 2016 at 7:09PM

Don't be despondent about the 0 points score. It's more a indication that the WCA wasn't conducted properly.

Re the mobilising criteria. The use of a manual wheelchair is considered.
But could you reliably and repeatedly self propel a manual wheelchair by use of your upper body?

If not - then the use of a manual wheelchair is not realistic. State this in your MR.
Then consider how far you can reliably and repeatedly walk before needing to stop due to severe discomfort. If you can't walk 200m before having to rest and recover this should score 6 points (less than 100m 9 points).

The picking up and moving by use of the upper body and arms criteria may well apply.
6 points is moving a light but bulky object (think about the actions required from a supermarket checkout operater). Is that something you could do reliably and repeatedly? (Not just once or twice).

Re Sitting and standing. The key to this is whether you would need to move away from the work station - perhaps to releive pain / cramps etc. If you need to alternatively stand and sit this would not trigger any points. Do you need to lie down to releive pain? If you couldn't remain at a work station for more than 60 mins (either sitting and standing) this should have scored 6 points.

Are there any mental health descriptors that could apply due to anxiety / depression?
Social engagement?

The inconitence descriptors should apply if there is a risk of evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder, which is sufficient to require cleaning and a change in clothing, if not able to reach a toilet quickly. This scoes 6 points.

I linked to a MR proforma in an earlier post. Keep a copy and get proof of posting.
If you have any supporting medical evidence to hand, then include this.

But, the DWP very rarely change the decision at MR stage. So don't expect a positive result from the DWP MRN. The next stage - appeal to the Tribunal Service is where you will get the DWP decision properly scrutinised. But you need the MR decision from the DWP to appeal to the TS.
The important action at this stage is to get the MR in to the DWP in good time.

The advicenow PIP appeal guide I linked to in the earlier post is a very helpful guide to the appeal process.

This may also be of use: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/535065/wca-handbook-july-2016.pdf

pages 74 on deals with the activities.

Not_Me · 3 October 2016 at 9:12PM

Can you use a manual wheelchair without putting pressure on the lower back? L4/L5 discs and at the very base of my bottom, i have to sit slowly because a pain shoots up from my bottom also.

Less than 100m before its painful, i think they put i walked 30M slowly.
But scored 0 points.

I carried a loaf of bread and a packet of (6) brains faggots 75m and it was surprising at how much that small amount of weight affected me.
That was about 4 years ago and the wife doesnt let me carry anything now.

They also mentioned using steps in the assessment, but there were no steps involved.

I couldnt stand or sit at a checkout unless i was free to move very often. Standing still and the sciatica starts to tingle and then burn. I need to move and bend to stretch it off. If i was there for an hour then the pain would be extreme and i wouldnt be able to function without a lot of morphine.
There is also the issue of my toilet habits and actually get to work on time.
I have morphine tablets 20mg twice daily and use oramorph.

Seems like i have a lot to read.

Thanks.

PS. whats the best approach here do i pick a section and ask you guys the answers or am i best try the CAB?

KxMx · 3 October 2016 at 9:39PM

I think the CAB would be your best bet

Alice_Holt · 3 October 2016 at 10:04PM

I wouldn't think a manual wheelchair would be possible, due to the fact that you would need to bend forward with the arm action to propel yourself. Is there somewhere where you could try a manual wheelchair and check if the pain you experience rules this option out?
In an earlier post you seemed to indicate a difiiculty with your arms / hands - would this be a factor?

If wheelchair use is ruled out due to pain - then walking less than 100m before needing to stop, due to severe discomfort should score 9 points. (Bear in mind the rest needs to be longer than a few seconds).

Not being able to sir or stand at a workstation for more than 1 hr - 6 points.

That gives the necessary 15 points. (If this applies to your condition).

Then we have activity 9 -
Absence or loss of control whilst conscious leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or bladder, other than enuresis (bed-wetting), despite the wearing or use of any aids or adaptations which are normally, or could reasonably be, worn or used.
9 (a) At least once a month experiences (i) loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder; or (ii) substantial leakage of the contents of a collecting device; sufficient to require cleaning and a change in clothing. 15 points.
9 (b) The majority of the time is at risk of loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder, sufficient to require cleaning and a change in clothing, if not able to reach a toilet quickly. 6 points.
9 (c) None of the above apply. 0 points.

(But note the "despite the wearing or use of any aids or adaptations which are normally, or could reasonably be, worn or used" qualification). (They don't make it easy!!!!)

I would certaintly contact the CAB. You may be lucky and have a benefits caseworker available to you. But, you are likely to find there may be a wait for an initial appointment, as most CAB's have huge demands on their service.
So, my advice, (and others may disagree) is to get the MR completed and posted to the DWP asap. The DWP won't award ESa on MR - it is just a delaying tactic.
The real work will be the appeal to the Tribunal - and once you have made the initial CAB contact - this is where you will benefit from their help and guidence.

TELLIT01 · 4 October 2016 at 7:58AM

Alice_Holt wrote: »

So, my advice, (and others may disagree) is to get the MR completed and posted to the DWP asap. The DWP won't award ESa on MR - it is just a delaying tactic.
The real work will be the appeal to the Tribunal - and once you have made the initial CAB contact - this is where you will benefit from their help and guidence.

It's not true to say that DWP won't award ESA at the MR stage, but it is not common for it to happen. When I worked on ESA we would get a few where the DM did overturn the original decision.
It is true to say that the majority will go to appeal and that isn't a quick process.

NeilCr · 4 October 2016 at 3:34PM

TELLIT01 wrote: »

It's not true to say that DWP won't award ESA at the MR stage, but it is not common for it to happen. When I worked on ESA we would get a few where the DM did overturn the original decision.
It is true to say that the majority will go to appeal and that isn't a quick process.

I'd agree with Alice. While it may be so that some MRs overturn the original decision in my experience it is rare - especially where there is a score of 0 points

Out of interest TELLIT01 how long ago was it that you were working on ESA? It's my impression - and I underline impression - that overturning decisions has become less prevalent as time has rolled on

Not_Me · 4 October 2016 at 4:13PM

The issue with my hands is more of a nerve issue, the first time i spotted it was when the wife was cooking and she asked me to open a tin of peas or similar. When going to pour in the tin my hand shook like it was hitting a nerve. This is why its not safe for me to handle hot pans, i cannot pour something without the risk of getting the shakes. It started happening when drinking tea also so i use a lidded cup.

I have no idea if a manual chair would affect that, but the lower back pain would likely be more of an issue.
I cannot sit or stand for an hour at a time, and having incontinence pads or a nappy wont help when ive got severe constipation and have to sit on the toilet for extended periods, this can happen with little or no warning. The last one was saturday night, i was on the phone to my mum when a sharp stabbing pain went through my stomach, i had to drop the phone and goto the toilet. Not even time for a sorry or bye.

Thanks

TELLIT01 · 4 October 2016 at 5:57PM

NeilCr wrote: »

Out of interest TELLIT01 how long ago was it that you were working on ESA? It's my impression - and I underline impression - that overturning decisions has become less prevalent as time has rolled on

It's about 2 years since I moved off ESA but conversations with people who have been working in ESA more recently do suggest that DMs will still occasionally change things at the MR stage. I do agree that it's not common, I just didn't want people having the impression that it simply wouldn't happen.

Never rains but it pours. ESA stopped.

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free