Smart meters - what is the catch?

victor2 · 7 August 2015 at 8:55AM

Hedgehog99 wrote: »

"Manage" rings alarm bells for me. "Manage" implies not being able to give all households the power they want/need at a particular time. Power companies already know domestic demand is higher in the evenings and workplace demand in the daytime. They know people stick the kettle on in the Corrie ad break. Monthly readings are fine. More frequent is none of the suppliers' business.

There are now "smart" white goods which also communicate with s/ms, so, not only do they know your total consumption, they'll gradually know what.

If it comes to imposed power cuts, I'd be fed up if I was in the middle of a washing machine cycle & I got cut off because of the demand from the six TVs, laptops, games consoles and kettles in the (hypothetical) HMO next door.

Of course, they already can, and do, turn the power off, so it doesn't need a s/m for them to be able to do that.

You can't blame the energy supplier for wanting to be smarter about handling supply & demand. There isn't an effective way to directly store electricity on the scale required by industry and domestic users. Renewable resources are pathetically small, fossil fuels are running out and nuclear is controversial.
With all the competition in the market, I can't see one supplier dictating when consumers will have energy and when they won't, at least not in the near future.
I am not for having smart meters installed in my house, but can see that I may have to accept them as standards become adopted and the industry moves in that direction, unless of course I choose to go off grid and generate everything I need. That is neither practical nor cost-effective at present...

alderpoint · 7 August 2015 at 9:11AM

victor2 wrote: »

With al the competition in the market, I can't see one supplier dictating when consumers will have energy and when they won't, at least not in the near future.

What I can see is suppliers structuring their charging such that using electricity in the off-peak periods is cheaper then using electricity in the peak periods - like Economy7 but much much more fine-grained control. This will happen as whitegoods (fridge/freezers, washing machines/dryers and dishwashers) before more intelligent and can get an indication from your electricity supplier of the current cost of power, and delay the next part of their cycle for a (short) while until the cost goes back down again.

victor2 · 7 August 2015 at 9:17AM

alderpoint wrote: »

What I can see is suppliers structuring their charging such that using electricity in the off-peak periods is cheaper then using electricity in the peak periods - like Economy7 but much much more fine-grained control. This will happen as whitegoods (fridge/freezers, washing machines/dryers and dishwashers) before more intelligent and can get an indication from your electricity supplier of the current cost of power, and delay the next part of their cycle for a (short) while until the cost goes back down again.

Makes sense to me. Look how much technology is crammed into the humble car these days.

System · 7 August 2015 at 9:29AM

alderpoint wrote: »

What I can see is suppliers structuring their charging such that using electricity in the off-peak periods is cheaper then using electricity in the peak periods - like Economy7 but much much more fine-grained control.

How do you think Government has estimated that £12.1Bn of expenditure on smart meters will save in excess of £17Bn? Some suppliers have already trialled peak demand charging based on 30 minute periods.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/household-bills/10217269/British-Gas-offers-daytime-discounts-on-electricity-in-new-trial.html

[Deleted User] · 7 August 2015 at 9:31AM

One of the best reasons for installing smart meters, with no refusals allowed, is the incredible amount of energy theft going off in certain areas of the UK, and rising all the time.The electric prepayment and gas meters are very easy to bypass.Once someone starts this usually they make sure never to allow us in to see the meters.We have two such areas in Doncaster, that is Edlington, ( Kings road area, where we have been told only to try and read the meters in pairs ) and Hexthorpe where many of the residents have long been enjoying free energy untouched by the years of liberal attitudes to stopping crime.These criminal actions have been allowed to flourish with no prosecutions ever in the local Magistrates courts so of course its going to increase.
Smart meters will go a very long way to stopping the easy theft of energy, suppliers will know when certain things have happened on the meters by sensors tripping error codes.Suppliers will be able to remotely shut down the theft.Smart meters will lower the overall energy costs of the UK by much reducing energy theft which can easily amount to over £2000 a year per house. Once people start getting free energy they tend to use and waste it more hence all the windows wide open in these areas to cool the houses down rather than switching off the central heating.To allow people to refuse a smart meter is a huge error by the MPs.There should be no choice in the matter.

lstar337 · 7 August 2015 at 9:37AM

I would predict that initially any new time of use tariff using smarts would be optional, and would offer good savings to those willing to use it to good effect. No different to the current E7 system, suppliers will be able to pass on savings made through buying cheap low demand electric to those willing to plan their use effectively. Home storage, once viable should be able to push savings to the max, storing up cheap leccy and releasing it during any peak times. It would be good if the smarts could trigger a home storage device (or new TOU appliances), to let them know when the price was good.

I'm guessing the whole system will be blown out of the water when some form of viable grid storage comes along.

For now, they save you manually reading your meter.

SwanJon · 7 August 2015 at 10:37AM

Hedgehog99 wrote: »

"Manage" rings alarm bells for me. "Manage" implies not being able to give all households the power they want/need at a particular time.

Already happens on a larger scale - it is the huge users of energy that are on specific contracts that allows National Grid to turn off/reduce their supply when demand exceeds supply.

I seem to remember smelters etc being the prime targets.
Much easier to have a small number of contracts to negotiate on in theis way than the thousands of households that would be needed for the sme effect.

System · 8 August 2015 at 3:28PM

Very good thread.

I've a tendancy to sway in opposition of smart meters because I think the money could be better spent on renewable energy projects instead, which is the only way to bring the cost of energy down.

I don't think these meters will save the consumer any money as.I would not expect a profit driven private company to pass on the savings they make from catching energy thieves. It's a fallacy.

It would be fantastic to see better improvements in locally sourced energy such as from photovoltaics. I can't see why in 2015 your average south facing roof could not house enough state of the art photovolatics to met the requirements of the average household, at least 50% of the time. Why haven't they devised a way to store energy in homes without the need for massive, cumbersome batteries yet ?

[Deleted User] · 8 August 2015 at 10:50PM

patman99 wrote: »

The whole smart meter thing in the UK is a shambles.
If there is going to be a future change in Law requiring these meters to be fitted, then the Law needs to set out certain criteria such as -

Meters must be fully portable between suppliers.

Meters must submit readings via the power lines that the energy comes through in the first place (charge de-coupled modem tech has been in use for years and is 100% secure).

People are very resitant to smart meters, but, depending where their water meter is fitted, they may already have one in their home.
My loacl water supplier fits remotely readable meters where it is not safe or possible to fit them outside the property. The meter read simply drives past and a scanner in the van picks up the meter readins as they go.

My water meter had a smart "dongle " fitted last year I had absolutely no choice in the matter, was nt asked if I wanted one and the MPs did nt prat about voting to let me refuse one..So I ve now got unwanted wi fi waves pulsing through my brain and Yorkshire Water now know when I pull the chain and I can be hacked by others..scandalous ! also now Yorkshire Water will know when I m breaking the hose pipe ban..which I always do. I m going to wrap some tin foil around it to fool it.!

Terry98 · 9 August 2015 at 5:46AM

sacsquacco wrote: »

My water meter had a smart "dongle " fitted last year I had absolutely no choice in the matter, was nt asked if I wanted one and the MPs did nt prat about voting to let me refuse one..So I ve now got unwanted wi fi waves pulsing through my brain and Yorkshire Water now know when I pull the chain and I can be hacked by others..scandalous !

I thought you were having a laugh until I looked it up...

What's a smart meter?
Our scheme will be the first in the UK to use "smart" water meters connected to a wireless network, so customers can view their water consumption online around the clock - gaining greater control of their usage and their bill.

https://www.thameswater.co.uk/your-account/17386.htm

It doesn't look like my Water supplier is doing Smart Meters at the moment........ I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

Smart meters - what is the catch?

Comments

Categories

Get our FREE Weekly email full of deals & guides - and it’s spam-free