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My Car Experiments

24

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  • Norman_Castle
    Norman_Castle Posts: 11,871
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    fred246 wrote: »
    So what is a banger and how is it created?
    A banger is a term used by generally clueless people to describe any car of any age with any faults. It can also be applied to any older car regardless of condition.
    These people also have blowouts instead of punctures.
  • motorguy
    motorguy Posts: 22,452
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    fred246 wrote: »
    People on this forum are always saying things like:
    I bought a 10 year old car from a dealer and payed a high price. It has problems and the dealer won't fix them despite me taking it back multiple times.
    The 'car experts' on this forum all then jump in and shout 'idiot' it's a 10 year old banger. what do you expect?
    I wonder what a 'banger' is. Old cars used to backfire but I've never heard a car do that for ages.
    My car at 10 years old is in the prime of it's life. Pretty perfect. Starts first time, runs beautifully, never breaks down.
    The only difference from new it has bent sills were garages have jacked it incorrectly when I've taken it for new tyres. So my car is almost brand new except for the damage caused by garages.
    So what is a banger and how is it created?

    A right so 10 years, not 5 years? :rolleyes:

    At 10 years old its probably worth 1/10th of what it cost new.

    People need reminded of the perspective of that, relative to their expectations of their "new" car.
  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 14,662
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    Exactly. No-one has said that they are bangers and worth nothing, just that if you're paying <£2k for a car at a dealership, you need to set your expectations realistically and that means you've got all the costs with owning a £1k car that's been traded in.

    If you bought carefully, you could get another 10 years out of it, but you'll probably have to spend some money. You can't expect it to be as-new, because you got something like a 90% discount on the new price.

    The people complaining usually bought a rough looking car at bottom of barrel pricing from a small dealer, and act surprised when it's not perfect.

    I've got a 7 year old car, needed £1000 worth of work done to it this year, which sucked but to be fair it was about £1500 under-priced at the time, and I got it for about 25% of new cost, so I'm still a small fortune up on buying a new one.
  • n217970
    n217970 Posts: 338
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    If you are buying a car priced at 2k or under you have to expect the person selling it (or who traded it in) suspects it has an expensive problem. It might, it might not.

    I suspect the last person who owned my 12 year old Volvo sold it becuase the steering rack is knackered. I havn't bothered fixing it and it has passed 2 MOTs racking up another 50k miles in the process (200k in total). The clutch feels like its coming to the end of its life now - it is original, so since a new clutch and flywheel are as much as the car is worth I will probably swap it in another 6 months. Which is a shame as the D5 engine in it is still running perfectly. I expect the new owner will be on here complaining their "new" £800 car needs a clutch.
  • motorguy
    motorguy Posts: 22,452
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    fred246 wrote: »
    People on this forum are always saying things like:
    I bought a 10 year old car from a dealer and payed a high price. It has problems and the dealer won't fix them despite me taking it back multiple times.
    The 'car experts' on this forum all then jump in and shout 'idiot' it's a 10 year old banger. what do you expect?
    I wonder what a 'banger' is. Old cars used to backfire but I've never heard a car do that for ages.
    My car at 10 years old is in the prime of it's life. Pretty perfect. Starts first time, runs beautifully, never breaks down.
    The only difference from new it has bent sills were garages have jacked it incorrectly when I've taken it for new tyres. So my car is almost brand new except for the damage caused by garages.
    So what is a banger and how is it created?

    You're focusing on one word and taking it out of context.

    The average life expectancy for a car is around 12 years. If someone buys a 10 year old car from a dealer for a couple of thousand and after 2 months the exhaust rots through and they're on here demanding "their rights" then they will be reminded that its a car in its twilight years and it is prone to wear and tear.

    My last 2 cars were 13 years old - a Volvo T5 and a Porsche Boxster. The Boxster behaved impeccably in the year i owned it (needing only a set of tyres) but the T5 was a real pig of a thing, despite having only 53K miles and two owners from new (it was off the road for 6 weeks in the first 5 months of this year)

    Once a car gets to 10 years+ you're usually running a bit of a lottery with regards to big bills. Some people are happy to take that risk, some people are blissfully unaware and just drive on, some people prefer newer cars to help mitigate the risk.

    Just because it has worked for you (so far) doesnt make everyone else wrong.
  • fred246
    fred246 Posts: 3,620
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    My 13 year old car with 144K miles has been valued at £500 trade in. Dealers are selling the same car for up to £4k. I would have thought some of the extra would be to sort out customer problems. People are paying £4k for a 10 year old car. When there are problems the dealers are saying 'hard luck' you get it fixed. I am not helping.' When the customer complain on the forums the motor traders are saying 'what an idiot, you've payed too much. You can't expect a 10 year old car to work." People that pay a shop £4k for something do actually expect something that works. I don't think that's too much to ask.
  • Herzlos
    Herzlos Posts: 14,662
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    I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get at. It's unlikely a car with a £500 trade in will sell for £4k on a dealers forecourt unless it needs a lot of work. Most likely it'd sell for £1500-2000 in a smaller dealer. So people paying £2000 at a dealer are buying a £500 trade in, and wondering why it's not in the same condition as a £20,000 car.
  • motorguy
    motorguy Posts: 22,452
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    edited 9 June 2017 at 2:26PM
    fred246 wrote: »

    My 13 year old car with 144K miles has been valued at £500 trade in.

    Dealers are selling the same car for up to £4k.

    Really? Or is this another wild exaggeration to try to prove a feeble point?

    I'd be extremely surprised if someone buying a car off you with 144,000 miles at £500 could then retail it at £4,000.
    fred246 wrote: »

    I would have thought some of the extra would be to sort out customer problems.

    I dont accept theres a 800% markup on 10 year old cars. Sorry. It doesnt happen. You're making an inflammatory statement there for no good reason.

    And likewise, if its a genuine "fault" then people will be advised / encouraged to speak to the dealer (as is their right). IF its wear and tear then thats a different story.
    fred246 wrote: »

    People are paying £4k for a 10 year old car. When there are problems the dealers are saying 'hard luck' you get it fixed. I am not helping.'

    No. Most dealers - in fact probably 95% will sort it out if its reasonable to do so. The problem lies when people have an expectation that that they can not reasonably expect to be met and not your right to expect under the CRA 2015.
    fred246 wrote: »

    When the customer complain on the forums the motor traders are saying 'what an idiot, you've payed too much. You can't expect a 10 year old car to work." People that pay a shop £4k for something do actually expect something that works. I don't think that's too much to ask.

    Its "too much to ask" if you have an expectation that by buying something at 10 years old and - with the example you quoted - 144,000 miles and then effectively expect the dealer to maintain it for you.

    And no, we're not "motor traders", we're people who are taking our own time to offer objective advice based on our own knowledge of the CRA 2015 and experience.

    Rather than perhaps waving generalisations about willy nilly, you take the time to advise people on forums as the problems are raised? Backed up of course with the relevant section of the CRA.

    You're really just throwing about generalisations and exaggerations here to get outraged on the internet...
  • motorguy
    motorguy Posts: 22,452
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    Herzlos wrote: »
    I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to get at. It's unlikely a car with a £500 trade in will sell for £4k on a dealers forecourt unless it needs a lot of work. Most likely it'd sell for £1500-2000 in a smaller dealer. So people paying £2000 at a dealer are buying a £500 trade in, and wondering why it's not in the same condition as a £20,000 car.

    I think he wants to be outraged on the internet and is trying to drum up scenarios using generalisations, mistruths and exaggerations.
  • fred246
    fred246 Posts: 3,620
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    I used to frequent scrapyards in the 1980s looking for parts. They used to put 3 cars in a pile and you took off your own spares. The cars then were really in a mess. Loads of rust. Looked really ready to scrap. It must be so different now. They don't let you get your own parts now of course. People must be scrapping cars in a really reasonable condition. Improvements in engineering don't seem to have translated into people keeping cars longer. People must be scrapping cars when minor repairs are needed. Maybe labour costs.
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