Council tax CCJ - help required
Comments
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I was thinking similarly. The bailiffs for magistrates court have more powers than those of county courts. The ones on Tv program "can't pay we'll take it away" are from magistrates.
Council tax don't usually go down the CCJ route as you have outlined they go through the magistrates
If the OP has a CCJ, it will appear on the CRA's as CCJ's are "COUNTY COURT" Judgements and are reported to the Registry Trust. It's the fact its a CCJ it appears not whether it was commercial or not.
Maybe councils are using CC as a cheaper route or maybe they are working with DCA who are using CCJ's
Just a correction.
The "Can't Pay" type shows are for debts from the High Court. This is an escalation from the County Courts and the debts have to go through them first.
Magistrates debt is dealt with completely separately, and are for matters that have police/criminal liability, not for civil recovery. Basically if you don't pay a CCJ or HCEO you get escalating costs, don't pay a Magistrates fine and you can end up in a comfy paid for jail cell.
Back to the subject: This all sounds a little weird, but the strategy here sounds a bit strange.
If you have a charging order, you need to get this dealt with, obsessing about your credit score is a bit of a sideshow. What is the debt outstanding, and are you up to date with CT this year?
The rules for what shows on your credit file are clear and CCJs (Regardless of what the debt is for)very much a part of the disclosures required on them. If you have a dispute with the CCJ itself then that's still action that can be taken, but you can't get references to it removed if the CCJ is valid.
In debt and looking for help? Look here for the MSE Debt Help Guide.
Also, If you need any free and impartial debt advice, the National Debtline, Stepchange, and the CAB can help.0 -
I'm not quite clear about the OP's current employment status, but wouldn't an LA normally go for an attachment of earnings order (if the debtor is employed) before resorting to a charging order?
Much more chance of recovering something in the short term, whereas a charging order might not be effective for decades.No free lunch, and no free laptop
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I'm not quite clear about the OP's current employment status, but wouldn't an LA normally go for an attachment of earnings order (if the debtor is employed) before resorting to a charging order?
Much more chance of recovering something in the short term, whereas a charging order might not be effective for decades.
It depends on the council - the choice is theirs but you're right in that the length of time you have to wait, unless you force the sale, can make charging orders a less attractive option.
CraigI no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a specialist Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.0 -
O went through this a couple of years ago (now all paid off) and had conformed by both courts and council if a charging order they can and will apply for it to be recorded as a ccj on your credit report. I'm just waiting for mine to fall off next year .0
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Earlier this week I checked with an old colleague of mine who deals with charging orders and they've run it past their legal team to check.
They confirmed that the courts have advised them that as no CCJ is required (the liability order is the substitute for the CCJ) the charging order is granted on the back of the order and there is no facility to register a liability order with the registry trust not convert it to a CCJ (the issuing of the charging order itself is not a CCJ, merely a form of enforcement).
CraigI no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a specialist Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.0 -
All I can tell you is when I asked for mine to be removed (it's all settled) the courts said no and referred me back to council to challenge their and their response after contacting both courts and legal team is that as it is a charging order it will be registered as a ccj on your credit report0
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All I can tell you is when I asked for mine to be removed (it's all settled) the courts said no and referred me back to council to challenge their and their response after contacting both courts and legal team is that as it is a charging order it will be registered as a ccj on your credit report
A charging order itself isn't recorded on the register of CCJ's, neither is a liability order - a charging order is recorded by the land registry. If they registered a CCJ then you need to ask exactly where in the Civil Procedure Rules (CPR) the liability order can be registered as a CCJ as there is precisely one mention of council tax recovery in the (CPR) and that is to confirm a CCJ isn't needed to obtain a charging order where a liability order is in place.
There may be some obscure case law somewhere but if there is then very few know about it and it isn't reflected in the courts own procedure rules.
CraigI no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a specialist Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.0 -
I have discovered today I have exactly the same problem with a council tax charging order. The council had a liability order, then got a "tribunal award" which apparently allowed them to get an interim charging order for £4.5k which I have disputed, and eventually potentially a full charging order. I have spent pretty much all day on the phone trying to find out what the "tribunal award " is and whether it is or will effectively become a ccj on my credit file with limited success. Even the call handlers at The court (when I eventually got through) were unable to help with any degree of certainty because it was not something they regularly deal in. Eventually they decided it was a form of CCJ and should be on my credit file. However it was registered in early September and does not appear on my credit file, nor does it appear on the Registry Tust site that provides the information to the CRAs. I spent a tenner this morning to check. I am wandering if even though the judgement was registered early september, it wont appear until the charging order has been finalised (or otherwise). I am just like the OP. I don't dispute the debt, just was unable to pay it at the time. I am now happy and willing to pay, but I really dont need a ccj on my credit file. I could pretty much have written the OPs posts in this thread myself!!0
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moatmeister wrote: »I have discovered today I have exactly the same problem with a council tax charging order. The council had a liability order, then got a "tribunal award" which apparently allowed them to get an interim charging order for £4.5k which I have disputed, and eventually potentially a full charging order. I have spent pretty much all day on the phone trying to find out what the "tribunal award " is and whether it is or will effectively become a ccj on my credit file with limited success. Even the call handlers at The court (when I eventually got through) were unable to help with any degree of certainty because it was not something they regularly deal in. Eventually they decided it was a form of CCJ and should be on my credit file. However it was registered in early September and does not appear on my credit file, nor does it appear on the Registry Tust site that provides the information to the CRAs. I spent a tenner this morning to check. I am wandering if even though the judgement was registered early september, it wont appear until the charging order has been finalised (or otherwise). I am just like the OP. I don't dispute the debt, just was unable to pay it at the time. I am now happy and willing to pay, but I really dont need a ccj on my credit file. I could pretty much have written the OPs posts in this thread myself!!
Not sure where the 'tribunal award' comes from, a tribunal has nothing to do with a charging order. The only way a tribunal is involved is for a council tax dispute to have been opened and a valuation tribunal to have made a decision regarding a dispute of council tax reduction, liability, discount or exemption. This has nothing specifically to do with the charging order .
A liability order isn't a form of CCJ - the civil procedure rules allow a charging order to be granted via either a CCJ (county court) or a Liability Order (magistrates court). The registry trust record county court judgements, a charging order isn't a county court judgement - it's a form of enforcement (a judgement would be the original country court order which states monies are outstanding)
If a liability order or charging order appear on a credit record then it would be via the registry trust (the official register of CCJ's). If it appears on the registry trust then you need to go back to the court and ask under what powers they've registered it as a CCJ.I no longer work in Council Tax Recovery but instead work as a specialist Council Tax paralegal assisting landlords and Council Tax payers with council tax disputes and valuation tribunals. My views are my own reading of the law and you should always check with the local authority in question.0 -
Not sure where the 'tribunal award' comes from, a tribunal has nothing to do with a charging order.
I would imagine that this was just something the court said as it would follow the same process as enforcement of a tribunal award.
Having said that, enforcement of awards such as this it a very rare occurrence in the County Courts so the likelihood of speaking to a member of staff with more than basic knowledge of the process is very low.
When you add this to the fact that 99% of staff in the County Courts have no legal qualifications then I would suggest that the best place to get advice would be a solicitor.
Just to add a bit of information on how CCJ's are passed to Registry Trust - this is now fully automated through the court case management system. As long as the case type is one which should be registered then entry of the judgment details onto the system will trigger the electronic notification.
In this case it seems to me that the correct case type has been used as the order produced is of the correct type.0
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