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  • FIRST POST
    • shoollhe
    • By shoollhe 4th Sep 17, 3:27 PM
    • 8Posts
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    shoollhe
    In dispute with landlord, wanted some feedback on email
    • #1
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:27 PM
    In dispute with landlord, wanted some feedback on email 4th Sep 17 at 3:27 PM
    He is charging me for cleaning communal areas of student accomodation despite property being spotless when I moved out, I spent 8 hours on day I left and many hours before that cleaning what I could apart from the other tenants rooms which were locked and it had new carpet, kitchen and bathroom last year so not much needed done to be honest but I still went as far as cleaning the shower glass, cleaning the extractor fans despite them being dirty when I moved in, and hoovering up every last crumb of dirt then scrubbing inside of cupboards.

    Landlord claims it costs £160 to clean a 4 bedroom property as there was dust everywhere in property (thats all he mentioned, communal cleaning on the official scheme and dusting and cleaning skirting in email)

    Secondly I asked him about deposit before end of tenancy and trying to arrange for him to meet and hand back keys (that way I knew at the time if there was any dispute and could of cleaned up)and this was his response which I believed meant he was going to give me back deposit anyway and he said he was unable to meet up and his agent would pick up keys at further occasion.

    ""

    You can just leave the keys in your room on the desk that will be fine. I will look out for the money.

    Just let me know when you’re moving out, make sure your room is clean, and deposit gets returned after end of lease .



    ""


    What does people think of that, I think its not clear it will give back deposit but also could do so.


    Thanks
Page 1
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 4th Sep 17, 3:30 PM
    • 15,118 Posts
    • 14,764 Thanks
    Guest101
    • #2
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:30 PM
    • #2
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:30 PM
    He is charging me for cleaning communal areas of student accomodation despite property being spotless when I moved out, I spent 8 hours on day I left and many hours before that cleaning what I could apart from the other tenants rooms which were locked and it had new carpet, kitchen and bathroom last year so not much needed done to be honest but I still went as far as cleaning the shower glass, cleaning the extractor fans despite them being dirty when I moved in, and hoovering up every last crumb of dirt then scrubbing inside of cupboards. - what kind of contract did you have? joint tenants? When did you move out compared to the end of the tenancy?

    Landlord claims it costs £160 to clean a 4 bedroom property as there was dust everywhere in property (thats all he mentioned, communal cleaning on the official scheme and dusting and cleaning skirting in email) - Is the deposit protected?

    Secondly I asked him about deposit before end of tenancy and trying to arrange for him to meet and hand back keys (that way I knew at the time if there was any dispute and could of cleaned up)and this was his response which I believed meant he was going to give me back deposit anyway and he said he was unable to meet up and his agent would pick up keys at further occasion. - irrelevant.

    ""

    You can just leave the keys in your room on the desk that will be fine. I will look out for the money.

    Just let me know when you’re moving out, make sure your room is clean, and deposit gets returned after end of lease .



    ""


    What does people think of that, I think its not clear it will give back deposit but also could do so.


    Thanks
    Originally posted by shoollhe
    It doesn't matter at all what it says.
    • walwyn1978
    • By walwyn1978 4th Sep 17, 3:31 PM
    • 375 Posts
    • 334 Thanks
    walwyn1978
    • #3
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:31 PM
    • #3
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:31 PM
    Did you get a copy of inventory/property condition report when you moved in/out, and what did that say about the areas he's proposing to charge you for?

    Also, is that £160 each or in total between however many of you there were?
    • shoollhe
    • By shoollhe 4th Sep 17, 3:34 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    shoollhe
    • #4
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:34 PM
    • #4
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:34 PM
    It doesn't matter at all what it says.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Single tenancy, we shared communal facilities and had identical contracts but same date, rent and seperate deposits.

    And yes deposit protected, in England

    And I dispute the relevancy, I put that there in case people asked why I didn't have landlord or agent there at check out to handle dispute at time.

    And for the quote, it was to see if people thought from his wording he was implying deposit will be returned or not, rather than any legal power of it.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 4th Sep 17, 3:35 PM
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    Guest101
    • #5
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:35 PM
    • #5
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:35 PM
    Single tenancy, we shared communal facilities and had identical contracts but same date, rent and seperate deposits.

    And yes deposit protected, in England

    And I dispute the relevancy, I put that there in case people asked why I didn't have landlord or agent there at check out to handle dispute at time. - It's still not relevant. They have 6 years to claim for any damages.

    And for the quote, it was to see if people thought from his wording he was implying deposit will be returned or not, rather than any legal power of it.
    Originally posted by shoollhe
    Indeed, but I cant comment on that. I don't know him/her.


    Simply enter a single claim with the protection scheme and see what they say.
    • shoollhe
    • By shoollhe 4th Sep 17, 3:36 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    shoollhe
    • #6
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:36 PM
    • #6
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:36 PM
    Did you get a copy of inventory/property condition report when you moved in/out, and what did that say about the areas he's proposing to charge you for?

    Also, is that £160 each or in total between however many of you there were?
    Originally posted by walwyn1978
    Total, and to be honest I can't remember about check in except mentioning a chair and desk and bed in bedroom, can't remember about kitchen or living room but can't remember in the sense I don't remember being handed anything rather than remember being handing something and not reading it.

    Check out had nothing, but the landlords entire claim seems to be for communal area cleaning according to the deposit scheme, not bedroom cleaning or anything.
    • shoollhe
    • By shoollhe 4th Sep 17, 3:39 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    shoollhe
    • #7
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:39 PM
    • #7
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:39 PM
    Indeed, but I cant comment on that. I don't know him/her.


    Simply enter a single claim with the protection scheme and see what they say.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Well, I still meant in the sense in case people asked why I didn't bring up any issues at check out because there was no check out (with me present) due to landlord not wanting to do one with me/other tenants, so I say that was relevant.

    I did think about single claim it was just I didn't know about proving it and wanted some other opinions first, I have photos of cleanliness, and that email though I didn't think it would be useful more than just personal opinion.

    I was worried with it being a shared property despite seperate deposits and contracts landlord can still claim cleaning.
    • walwyn1978
    • By walwyn1978 4th Sep 17, 3:40 PM
    • 375 Posts
    • 334 Thanks
    walwyn1978
    • #8
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:40 PM
    • #8
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:40 PM
    Guest101 nails it - enter claim with protection scheme, the onus is on the LL to prove his case, send an email or better still a recorded delivery letter back saying you don't accept and you will claim using the protection scheme, wait for either him to fold and return your deposit if he is trying it on or for the scheme to investigate and hopefully find fot you. Don't spend lots of time arguing with him about it.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 4th Sep 17, 3:41 PM
    • 15,118 Posts
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    Guest101
    • #9
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:41 PM
    • #9
    • 4th Sep 17, 3:41 PM
    Well, I still meant in the sense in case people asked why I didn't bring up any issues at check out because there was no check out (with me present) due to landlord not wanting to do one with me/other tenants, so I say that was relevant.

    I did think about single claim it was just I didn't know about proving it and wanted some other opinions first, I have photos of cleanliness, and that email though I didn't think it would be useful more than just personal opinion.

    I was worried with it being a shared property despite seperate deposits and contracts landlord can still claim cleaning.
    Originally posted by shoollhe
    The LL can claim for a Boeing 747 if he or she wants to, it's about the likely outcome.


    It's down to the LL to prove the deductions, not you.
    • shoollhe
    • By shoollhe 4th Sep 17, 3:43 PM
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    shoollhe
    The LL can claim for a Boeing 747 if he or she wants to, it's about the likely outcome.


    It's down to the LL to prove the deductions, not you.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    Sure, but how likely would it be? Im worried he will show pictures of the bedrooms in a mess to justify it despite it being single deposits and per room, or find specs of dust and say that was proof it wasn't spotless, had it in past with landlords before the scheme came in so worried it may happen again.

    So part of the question is if the other tenants left their rooms a tip or at least untidy/needing a hoover he would have a chance to take money from my deposit for it despite being seperate and counting it as communal charges.
    • aerie
    • By aerie 4th Sep 17, 3:46 PM
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    aerie
    As someone else said, you can dispute the cost and see what the deposit scheme decide.

    Given the experiences I and others I knew had renting at university, I would advise ensuring a detailed inventory is taken on moving in, and take dated photos both moving in and out in case of a dispute like this.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 4th Sep 17, 3:47 PM
    • 15,118 Posts
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    Guest101
    Sure, but how likely would it be? Im worried he will show pictures of the bedrooms in a mess to justify it despite it being single deposits and per room, or find specs of dust and say that was proof it wasn't spotless, had it in past with landlords before the scheme came in so worried it may happen again. - Yep, the scheme policy is not to employ anyone with common sense. They literally just employ people with an IQ of below 20....

    So part of the question is if the other tenants left their rooms a tip or at least untidy/needing a hoover he would have a chance to take money from my deposit for it despite being seperate and counting it as communal charges.
    Originally posted by shoollhe
    No, he cannot claim against you for other people. And the schemes are generally administered by trained people with good working knowledge of the law.
    • shoollhe
    • By shoollhe 4th Sep 17, 4:07 PM
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    shoollhe
    No, he cannot claim against you for other people. And the schemes are generally administered by trained people with good working knowledge of the law.
    Originally posted by Guest101
    It wasn't an IQ thing but how well he can twist the truth, like I have pictures of a neat property and he brings out ones of it untidy, I had a ex landlord once arrive 2 hours early whilst I was doing a final clean after moving last of stuff out and take photos of the crumbs of dirt in corner then weeks later provide this as proof I didn't leave place spotless.

    And one time I genuinely left some dust brushed in corner of a property despite it being cleaner than when I moved in and landlord still claimed for it, the place was spotless as can be apart from that with me using steam cleaner on laminiate and polishing wooden furniture even deep cleaning fridge freezer and getting rust off it and washing machine that were there when I moved in, irrelvant mostly but shows how I have been conned in past.
    • Guest101
    • By Guest101 4th Sep 17, 4:12 PM
    • 15,118 Posts
    • 14,764 Thanks
    Guest101
    It wasn't an IQ thing but how well he can twist the truth, like I have pictures of a neat property and he brings out ones of it untidy, I had a ex landlord once arrive 2 hours early whilst I was doing a final clean after moving last of stuff out and take photos of the crumbs of dirt in corner then weeks later provide this as proof I didn't leave place spotless.

    And one time I genuinely left some dust brushed in corner of a property despite it being cleaner than when I moved in and landlord still claimed for it, the place was spotless as can be apart from that with me using steam cleaner on laminiate and polishing wooden furniture even deep cleaning fridge freezer and getting rust off it and washing machine that were there when I moved in, irrelvant mostly but shows how I have been conned in past.
    Originally posted by shoollhe
    There is no more advice I can give you, make the claim or don't.
    • shoollhe
    • By shoollhe 13th Sep 17, 6:01 PM
    • 8 Posts
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    shoollhe
    Got a response back from LL stating this

    The DPS have contacted me saying you are disputing the cleaning bill which was split 5 ways.

    The common areas all needed a good clean, and your room had rubbish in it and needed cleaning also.

    Can we just go ahead and finish this off?

    ----

    Now I replied back mentioning (may be irrelevant) that when I moved in the wardrobes were filthy and damp, full of bugs/damp and rubbish from previous tenant, and how when I moved in I took the overflowing rubbish bins out from former tenants.

    I also stated had he informed me of the cleaning issue I would of happily returned to clean the property but was not given the chance.

    Guessing I have to take it further?
    • G_M
    • By G_M 13th Sep 17, 6:18 PM
    • 41,969 Posts
    • 48,573 Thanks
    G_M
    The important evidence is

    1) the check in report. You say you don't remember it, but did you see one at the time and did you sign it? That is the starting point. The check out is compared against whatever the check-in says.

    2) the check out report. Has the LL shown you this? How does it compare with check-in?

    Next:
    3) do you have photos from when you moved out showing your room clean? Good - submit those to the arbitrators as evidence.

    4) photos when you moved in? Showing it was not clean then? Even better.

    5) write a clear statement of all the cleaning you did and submit it to the scheme arbitrators. The more evidence you submit to them, the more likely you will win.
    • shoollhe
    • By shoollhe 13th Sep 17, 6:24 PM
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    shoollhe
    I forgot that, I think I have it on back of tenancy agreement for check in but all I remember was about 3 lines listing what was in room, desk, chair, bed, might of listed wardrobe but it was built in anyway, everyone had same inventory despite some having shelves too which weren't listed, despite everyone having seperate contracts.

    Photos I have somewhere, not sure totally about the wardrobe photos when I moved in.

    I have a feeling the cupboard was just a dust magnet due to damp,. found creepy crawlies in it often and needed to dust pretty much every day, remember putting my hand in and it was soaked in dirt.

    There was a cracked old electric socket inside too.
    • gazter
    • By gazter 13th Sep 17, 7:03 PM
    • 917 Posts
    • 716 Thanks
    gazter
    I forgot that, I think I have it on back of tenancy agreement for check in but all I remember was about 3 lines listing what was in room, desk, chair, bed, might of listed wardrobe but it was built in anyway, everyone had same inventory despite some having shelves too which weren't listed, despite everyone having seperate contracts.

    Photos I have somewhere, not sure totally about the wardrobe photos when I moved in.

    I have a feeling the cupboard was just a dust magnet due to damp,. found creepy crawlies in it often and needed to dust pretty much every day, remember putting my hand in and it was soaked in dirt.

    There was a cracked old electric socket inside too.
    Originally posted by shoollhe

    Is there rubbish in your room as he claims? You have photos of the room as you left it?
    • segedunum
    • By segedunum 17th Sep 17, 11:43 PM
    • 29 Posts
    • 19 Thanks
    segedunum
    Without a checkin report the landlord is going to find this mighty difficult, to impossible.

    I've been through this with a landlord who thought they could save money on inventories, and check-ins/check-outs. It was a bad idea. It is up to the landlord to prove what he/she is claiming. The tenancy deposit remains the property of the tenant otherwise.
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