I know, be thankful for the job
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joeypesci
Posts: 671 Forumite
Am in the techinical field and in a role that I choose even though I know from the JD the yearly pay is about £10k under the market rate. I questioned this and was just told "That's what it is there is no option to negotiate".
Now in the role and there is extra work that has been added on that was never in the JD. Some of it but not all has been added to the letter offer which has been signed. I have yet to sign a contract.
What is the best time to bring up the issue of the pay again. I know I've choosen this knowing the issues and I know I could use it as a learning experience. I would just like to discuss with them, without fear of them saying "Well fine, we'll just get someone else then.". Discuss with them what in their right mind makes them think that wage is a fair market rate for that field and what is expected.
As I mentioned its not just £10k less it's probably more like £14k less than what I was getting elsewhere doing less. I left the other place due to distance (only a few miles from where this place is so not massive distance). The only other option they'd have in finding a replacement is finding someone who accepts the poor wage and just wants to use it to learn, a graduate or an intern.
Anyone in this field, at this level and what they want you/me to do would be asking for at min £35k and if they really knew their stuff and could fully support it all from day one at least £40k.
I get the impression they are exploiting the market and me being desperate means I have to just take it.
Just curious at what point is a good idea to raise it. Only been there 3 weeks. There is also now mentioned of needing to drive which was never mentioned on the JD or anywhere else. Considering I no longer have business insurance on the car they'll have issues forcing me to drive it.
A friend has already said "Just be thankful you have a job". True but you should also never let companies !!!! on you, even if you choose to be !!!! on due to being desperate.
Now in the role and there is extra work that has been added on that was never in the JD. Some of it but not all has been added to the letter offer which has been signed. I have yet to sign a contract.
What is the best time to bring up the issue of the pay again. I know I've choosen this knowing the issues and I know I could use it as a learning experience. I would just like to discuss with them, without fear of them saying "Well fine, we'll just get someone else then.". Discuss with them what in their right mind makes them think that wage is a fair market rate for that field and what is expected.
As I mentioned its not just £10k less it's probably more like £14k less than what I was getting elsewhere doing less. I left the other place due to distance (only a few miles from where this place is so not massive distance). The only other option they'd have in finding a replacement is finding someone who accepts the poor wage and just wants to use it to learn, a graduate or an intern.
Anyone in this field, at this level and what they want you/me to do would be asking for at min £35k and if they really knew their stuff and could fully support it all from day one at least £40k.
I get the impression they are exploiting the market and me being desperate means I have to just take it.
Just curious at what point is a good idea to raise it. Only been there 3 weeks. There is also now mentioned of needing to drive which was never mentioned on the JD or anywhere else. Considering I no longer have business insurance on the car they'll have issues forcing me to drive it.
A friend has already said "Just be thankful you have a job". True but you should also never let companies !!!! on you, even if you choose to be !!!! on due to being desperate.
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Comments
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Vote with your feet. Get that £14K a year more job elsewhere and leave. Simples.0
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Vote with your feet. Get that £14K a year more job elsewhere and leave. Simples.
I wish I could. Struggling to get anywhere else as this was the only company that wasn't so strict with their interviewing. Other places are more strict and don't look at the bigger picture as in past job experience with high praise. That's the problem with Technical Managers, they go on !!!!!!!! certs instead of expericence and proof of past good working practice.0 -
I wish I could. Struggling to get anywhere else as this was the only company that wasn't so strict with their interviewing. Other places are more strict and don't look at the bigger picture as in past job experience with high praise. That's the problem with Technical Managers, they go on !!!!!!!! certs instead of expericence and proof of past good working practice.
Then therein lies your problem - you're probably paid about right for an uncertified technical manager if the market is expecting certifications.
The only way to prove you're underpaid is to rock up with your new employer with a job offer for significantly more and then walk.0 -
Am in the techinical field and in a role that I choose even though I know from the JD the yearly pay is about £10k under the market rate. I questioned this and was just told "That's what it is there is no option to negotiate".
There IS an option to negotiate! You simply have to ask for the money and throw in some justification as to WHY you are worth that. In places which don't negotiate on price, like here, you sort of have to make yourself come across as a cut above everyone else. They may not accept, but likewise YOU may not accept either! You can always decline a job if you are getting a bad deal (unless you *need* money, in which case use it as a stepping stone).Now in the role and there is extra work that has been added on that was never in the JD. Some of it but not all has been added to the letter offer which has been signed. I have yet to sign a contract.
Low pay and extra work? Sounds like a sweatshop-type operation. Good for money and wider experience, but doesn't make you feel great about yourself.
Also, not sure if you have to *sign* a contract to have accepted it.What is the best time to bring up the issue of the pay again. I know I've choosen this knowing the issues and I know I could use it as a learning experience. I would just like to discuss with them, without fear of them saying "Well fine, we'll just get someone else then.". Discuss with them what in their right mind makes them think that wage is a fair market rate for that field and what is expected.
Well, they may well say that to you! More so if you go in saying aggressive things like "what in you right mind makes you..."
Hard to say when the next opportune time is for a pay review because you've failed to in the initial negotiation period. I think you'd need to wait until you've established some rapport and demonstrated your talents a bit.As I mentioned its not just £10k less it's probably more like £14k less than what I was getting elsewhere doing less. I left the other place due to distance (only a few miles from where this place is so not massive distance).
This bit is odd.... You must have either:
1. Been in employment and handed in your notice only when the 14k less job had offered you a role in a place which was a similar distance (despite you being motivated to seek an alternative job due to the "distance")
2. Left employment with nothing lined up due to "distance", but yet then end up in a place a few miles away??
Both scenarios are raising a red flag here.... Doesn't immediately make sense.The only other option they'd have in finding a replacement is finding someone who accepts the poor wage and just wants to use it to learn, a graduate or an intern.
Plenty of people lined up. I can assure you of that, only you'll probably be more experienced and their first choice (more so if you end up on the low wage!).Anyone in this field, at this level and what they want you/me to do would be asking for at min £35k and if they really knew their stuff and could fully support it all from day one at least £40k.
My last employer paid me just above NMW and had me doing the job of 3 people. Industry standard was 25k believe it or not.I get the impression they are exploiting the market and me being desperate means I have to just take it.
Ahh, freudian slip!
Why were you "desperate" to cut down your commute distance by only a few miles?Just curious at what point is a good idea to raise it. Only been there 3 weeks.
When you are a bit more in their "good books" I feel.There is also now mentioned of needing to drive which was never mentioned on the JD or anywhere else. Considering I no longer have business insurance on the car they'll have issues forcing me to drive it.
No longer? So you have done this previously for an employer (unless you have a business outside of work?) but now you don't want to? Seems a bit of a douche move that.
"Forcing" :rotfl: you don't have to do anything, you just may end up with a P45.
That being said, you certainly have grounds to ask them to pay for your business insurance and be fairly insistent on it (more so if the JD didn't specify it, but depending on your line of work in a "technical field" it may well be implied!).A friend has already said "Just be thankful you have a job". True but you should also never let companies !!!! on you, even if you choose to be !!!! on due to being desperate.
Go find a new job then.0 -
I wish I could. Struggling to get anywhere else as this was the only company that wasn't so strict with their interviewing. Other places are more strict and don't look at the bigger picture as in past job experience with high praise. That's the problem with Technical Managers, they go on !!!!!!!! certs instead of expericence and proof of past good working practice.
- Employees want as much money as possible for as little work as possible.
- Employers want as much work as possible for as little money as possible.
- A business exists to make money for its owners, not its employees.
- A business which exists to make money for someone else isn't a business, it's a charity.
I dunno why any of this is a surprise to you, but it seems it is. You're getting the market rate because you are the in the jobs market, and you accepted the job. Get another job if you want more money.
But if you can't or won't do that, it's not your employer's fault, for the reasons outlined above.0 - Employees want as much money as possible for as little work as possible.
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There IS an option to negotiate! You simply have to ask for the money and throw in some justification as to WHY you are worth that. In places which don't negotiate on price, like here, you sort of have to make yourself come across as a cut above everyone else. They may not accept, but likewise YOU may not accept either! You can always decline a job if you are getting a bad deal (unless you *need* money, in which case use it as a stepping stone).
Low pay and extra work? Sounds like a sweatshop-type operation. Good for money and wider experience, but doesn't make you feel great about yourself.
Also, not sure if you have to *sign* a contract to have accepted it.
Well, they may well say that to you! More so if you go in saying aggressive things like "what in you right mind makes you..."
Hard to say when the next opportune time is for a pay review because you've failed to in the initial negotiation period. I think you'd need to wait until you've established some rapport and demonstrated your talents a bit.
This bit is odd.... You must have either:
1. Been in employment and handed in your notice only when the 14k less job had offered you a role in a place which was a similar distance (despite you being motivated to seek an alternative job due to the "distance")
2. Left employment with nothing lined up due to "distance", but yet then end up in a place a few miles away??
Both scenarios are raising a red flag here.... Doesn't immediately make sense.
Plenty of people lined up. I can assure you of that, only you'll probably be more experienced and their first choice (more so if you end up on the low wage!).
My last employer paid me just above NMW and had me doing the job of 3 people. Industry standard was 25k believe it or not.
Ahh, freudian slip!
Why were you "desperate" to cut down your commute distance by only a few miles?
When you are a bit more in their "good books" I feel.
No longer? So you have done this previously for an employer (unless you have a business outside of work?) but now you don't want to? Seems a bit of a douche move that.
"Forcing" :rotfl: you don't have to do anything, you just may end up with a P45.
That being said, you certainly have grounds to ask them to pay for your business insurance and be fairly insistent on it (more so if the JD didn't specify it, but depending on your line of work in a "technical field" it may well be implied!).
Go find a new job then.
The red flags are inplace in case someone there reads this
its someone accurate but not accurate enough that they'd work it out.
Annoying being cryptic but there you go. It was more a contract expiring and them not extending due to massive restructures so getting rid of even some perm staff.0 -
It sounds like you are being paid the going rate for someone who is unqualified. If you want mire money either find someone who wants to pay more than you are on for an unqualified member of staff. Or, get the qualification that other employers are looking for. You don't get to have it both ways.0
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What!!!8217;s the job?
Honestly the likelihood of them offering you more money, especially £14k 3 weeks after starting is minimal but you can ask. They can also say no. The time to negotiate was when they offered you the job.
Also if people are looking for certs why can!!!8217;t you get some? I did an MCSA for this reason.0 -
I think you should look for something else as you clearly already really resent your employer and you've only been there three weeks.0
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Am in the techinical field
Too vague
The issue you have is you have set the market rate by accepting the job.
You need to manage the situation in particular the hours you work and the skill levels you deliver.
Adding to the JD is not a problem if there is time to do the work and you have the skills
You need to be looking for CV enhancing activities and keep looking for this £14k more job you are sure you are worth.
It may take time but if they really exist one will come along.
At the same time you look for the rolls in the new firm that do pay more and strive to meet the criteria to get the promotions/job change.
Some technical sectors the pay goes with the industry, the trick is to do the job in the high paying industries not the low paid ones.0
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