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How did you find this out? Is it just something 'the system' makes happen or did you or PS CS do something for you? Does it apply to Special 'in current month' Powerpacks you purchase only or does it also apply to Future Packs you've bought?
It was to cover the missing part of my first month’s usage. I could see a gap in the calendar so I bought a couple of standard power packs. After discussing this with PS, they refunded my purchases and I was told to wait until the 1st of this month. I then purchased the special low value packs and this cleared the missing days including those in late Jun. My account review date is the 4th.0 -
@Hengus - Thanks for clarifying that. I am in a similar but worse situation to yourself. I went live on supply on 19th April but didn't have a working online account until 30th June. I quickly bought whatever Powerpacks and Future Packs that were available on the 30th but due to a wrong very low annual consumption entered on my account, the value of the special packs I purchased wasn't enough to cover my historic use.
Initially the system purchased standard tariff Top Up packs for me to cover the unfunded days but eventually CS reversed both them and the original lower value special packs I bought. When the correct annual consumption was put in I then re-purchased the special packs at the higher value they were calculated at. However this still wasn't enough to cover the historic gaps in my calender so that will be covered by standard tariff Top up packs and the 'loss' I incur will be covered by a CS credit to my account.
So, any more special Powerpacks that pop up for purchase in the near future (I've bought all I can) might help to backfill the funded gap in my calender thus reducing the amount of standard tariff Top Up packs that will need to be purchased. That is why your comment was of particular interest to me.0 -
Powershop_UK wrote: »Hello Rob,
Sorry to hear you haven’t liked the experience.
Our goal is to connect peoples consumption to their payments and give them control of their balances with their energy supplier for the first time. We think that’s good for both you and us because you understand your costs, have incentives to reduce your usage, and feel in control. Chris’s experience which he’s detailed in this thread is exactly what we are hoping for. (Thanks Chris!
)
We understand it’s a new model in the UK and are still refining the best way to present things to customers versus in New Zealand where it’s an established model. Two of the key differences are full payment for usage by the end of the monthly billing cycle, and seasonally varying discounts. These seem to be at the core of your issues with our model, but we’ll address your points one by one.
Our answer: Our discounts are not the same every month. The Tariff Information Label values reference an annual achievable figure. Great to hear that you got 13.4%, that appears to be bang on what we’d expected an active user would be able to achieve in that period.
Our model is different and requires full payment by the end of your monthly billing cycle. There may be customers who don’t budget at all in advance with future packs and we don’t want it to be too much of a shock when they see their first winter bill. Therefore, we are currently budgeting more discount for the Winter months when people need it the most.
However, seasonally varying discount means that any one month versus our quotes which are annual figures. The discount level quoted can be achieved either by purchasing top up and special packs the in month or by purchasing future packs and snagging our big discount winter special pack (which we are thinking of calling Wintervention).
Our answer: Even with a vanilla energy supplier on a monthly direct debit you will be building a significant credit during the spring and summer months when it’s warm with many hours of daylight. We are giving you the tools to manage that yourself. As mentioned above you don’t have to buy future packs to get the best discount, however we recommend you do as it’s a good way to budget.
But at least you are building that credit via a manageable monthly payment, rather than having to pay for x number of power packs in one go, (to achieve the best discount,) which is the whole point of the exercise?
Our answer: Our goal is that you should buy about 5 packs a month and you can choose to do that in advance (future packs) or in month (top up and special packs).
Thanks for the feedback, we understand and are trying new things with future packs. You’ll see that this month we’ve made blocks of £10s which you can buy in advance. We may try the option of letting a customer specify the value (£1-100) in one purchase in the future. We haven’t done that yet because we thought it might be confusing new customers.
Our answer: A Powerpack covers both your standing daily charge (p/day) and your usage charge (elec kWh/day). This is with the goal of being transparent about the overall bill value in the app. However it means that a pack can’t be represented in p/kwh as it would change based on if you’re usage changes. That’s why the % discount is what we display that is constant for all customers.
Additionally, we are looking to launch gas supply soon (moving into alpha testing now) and power packs will cover a whole bill including gas to keep the app user interface simple for basic users (you clearly don’t fall into the category of basic user!). A kWh of gas is a very different cost than a kWh of electricity that representing them together would be too complicated.
Our answer: You’re clearly a power user, whereas the interface is attempting to cater to all levels of expertise. You can see the details of your consumption costs in the Usage and Transactions tab of your online account. We’ll be adding more to these tabs in the future as we hear more from customers.
Our answer: As detailed in our answers above, looks like it’s the seasonal varying discount which has given the wrong impression. We want to make sure customers receive the most discount when they need it the most in Winter. You achieved the maximum discount we’d planned for in May.
Many comparison sites want to display a “whole of market view” and have chosen to include us. We’ve had conversation with many of these sites to make sure they understand how we’re different, and we will continue to do so.
We specifically do not allow sales on comparison sites at the best achievable price (displayed as “Shop for Powerpacks” or “Easy Saver”). We allow click through only on our “Promise”. Customer’s who have signed up from April via comparison sites or our website, will have their accounts periodically monitored to make sure they are tracking to achieve the same or better than the “promise” rate they signed up to. This is because we are confident people can achieve very good rates and want to allow people to try us out without worrying.
In effect, you have "hidden rates" which only existing customers can see? That's not completely transparent.
Hope the above answers help! We’d be happy to give you a call and discuss if you’d like. Just send us a message on the forum as to how best to get in touch with you.
- Powershop Pricing Team
I'm not sure i like the idea of having to purchase a product 5 months in advance / forward purchasing, to achieve the best possible discounts, especially if you are on a budget.
I personally, find a consistent monthly payment far more manageable, (even though it is still building credit). I've just received my quarterly bill, and it looks like my annual bill will work out almost spot on, with no effort or input, from me. Just click a button, four times a year.
This seems like far too much effort for very little gain. I much prefer ease of use along with competitive energy prices.Fred - Where's your get up and go?
Barney - It just got up and went.
Carpe diem0 -
fredandwilma wrote: »I'm not sure i like the idea of having to purchase a product 5 months in advance / forward purchasing, to achieve the best possible discounts, especially if you are on a budget.
I personally, find a consistent monthly payment far more manageable, (even though it is still building credit). I've just received my quarterly bill, and it looks like my annual bill will work out almost spot on, with no effort or input, from me. Just click a button, four times a year.
This seems like far too much effort for very little gain. I much prefer ease of use along with competitive energy prices.
That was my initial view; however, there are three givens:
1. The Standard Variable Rate ( which I accept may change).
2. No exit fee.
3. The Easy Saver Promise in Year 1 which in effect is equivalent to a very competitive fixed tariff. PS has confirmed that this will not vary even if they raise their standard variable rates.
In sum, apart from having to pay varying amounts and build up credit to get the best discounts, the fixed deal on offer is similar to that offered by other suppliers with the POTENTIAL to a very good deal. To repeat my estimates:
Max: £398.09
Easy Saver Promise: £379.84
Easy Saver: £330.72
The cheapest electricity only deal on MSE CEC today is fixed at £361. The 'bottomline' is that I could end up paying £18 more than I need to do but I have the potential to save £30 below what CEC can offer.
Edit:
Just to add some further information. PS billing is amongst the best that I have ever encountered. My monthly review date is the 4th. I gave them a meter reading on the 4th to one decimal point, and I received an account review mid afternoon . This shows consumption against the SVT and how this has been paid for using the various packs that have been purchased.
On the two statements that I have had so far, I have used £31.89 worth of electricity billed on the SVT; however, I have only paid £27.51 to cover this consumption - a saving on the SVT of 14.3%. A discount of 23.5% is available if I purchase packs to cover my November consumption today. December Future Packs should be available to purchase soon.0 -
I remember a previous post about timing of Future Packs and I've submitted a query to PS CS about this but I think I've worked it out eventually for myself.
I bought a number of Future Packs (Aug, Sept, Oct & Nov) and when looking at my Power Organiser calendar I couldn't understand why the majority of November was not coloured green (green indicates there is credit to cover those days.)
My new accounting period in November starts on 4th November so my previous accounting period ends on 3rd of November. So, what I've realised is that the 'November' future pack is named after the day of the month the accounting period ends on NOT the month it actually ends up covering!! i.e. my 'November' Future Pack actually covers my consumption in October and the only reason it's called 'November' is because the accounting/billing period it covers ENDS in November!! This confused me a great deal and I'm sure it will confuse other new customers. So, my November Future Pack covers consumption in October, my October Future Pack covers my consumption in September etc.
Hope this helps other new confused customers:)0 -
I'm trying to get my head round this too. I'm a new Powershop customer as of last month, just about to come to the end of my first billing month.
My understanding, after reading the thread, is that buying FuturePacks is effectively irrelevant, as the discounts offered through the monthly packs will bring everybody's discount to the same ~20%ish-over-the-year level. The only interaction required is to buy the specials offered each month, the size of which are tailored to your consumption rates. So, as long as you're being accurate with reporting your usage (say, giving a meter reading weekly-ish?).
This doesn't feel right though, especially as the October/November pack is currently showing a 23.5% discount (though I can imagine that the discounts "look" better over the winter than they do over the summer and, on average, become 20%ish-over-the-year), so it appears very attractive compared to other packs currently on offer.
Should people be rewarded for better budgeting? Not making FuturePacks meaningful also flies in the face of the suggestions from the Anzac market that we should be buying winter power during summer. Perhaps that approach is a fallacy, and we're being encouraged to do so in order that Powershop has money in the bank to buy energy from the wholesale market to achieve the 20%-ish-over-the-year discounts for everybody. This would effectively mean that those who are buying FuturePacks are subsidising/enabling the deal to be available to those who are too lazy to budget, but are happy to click on a button or two in an app each month.
I have data that covers my consumption levels during the last 2-and-a-bit years. Should I be spending time analysing this to maximize my savings, trying to hit the sweet spot of FuturePacks to cover my projected consumption? I'm beginning to feel that it's not worth the effort if the specials are going to cover the discount in any case, assuming the Powershop algorithms for predicting consumption produce results that are at least roughly equivalent to my existing data.
So many questions. The complexity in this approach is mind-boggling.0 -
I'm trying to get my head round this too. I'm a new Powershop customer as of last month, just about to come to the end of my first billing month.
My understanding, after reading the thread, is that buying FuturePacks is effectively irrelevant, as the discounts offered through the monthly packs will bring everybody's discount to the same ~20%ish-over-the-year level. The only interaction required is to buy the specials offered each month, the size of which are tailored to your consumption rates. So, as long as you're being accurate with reporting your usage (say, giving a meter reading weekly-ish?).
This doesn't feel right though, especially as the October/November pack is currently showing a 23.5% discount (though I can imagine that the discounts "look" better over the winter than they do over the summer and, on average, become 20%ish-over-the-year), so it appears very attractive compared to other packs currently on offer.
Should people be rewarded for better budgeting? Not making FuturePacks meaningful also flies in the face of the suggestions from the Anzac market that we should be buying winter power during summer. Perhaps that approach is a fallacy, and we're being encouraged to do so in order that Powershop has money in the bank to buy energy from the wholesale market to achieve the 20%-ish-over-the-year discounts for everybody. This would effectively mean that those who are buying FuturePacks are subsidising/enabling the deal to be available to those who are too lazy to budget, but are happy to click on a button or two in an app each month.
I have data that covers my consumption levels during the last 2-and-a-bit years. Should I be spending time analysing this to maximize my savings, trying to hit the sweet spot of FuturePacks to cover my projected consumption? I'm beginning to feel that it's not worth the effort if the specials are going to cover the discount in any case, assuming the Powershop algorithms for predicting consumption produce results that are at least roughly equivalent to my existing data.
So many questions. The complexity in this approach is mind-boggling.
I am not sure how you have come to that conclusion? If you are right - and I am not saying that you are wrong as it is too soon to tell as far as my account is concerned - then why would PS bother offering high discount Future Packs? I agree that there is a lot of effort involved in this type of energy contract, and PS will not suit those with a hands off approach to energy usage monitoring.0 -
Powershop_UK wrote:As we mentioned in our last post, you can choose to wait till in month packs are released during each month or you can purchase in advance with future packs. Our goal is that you’re no worse off either way you choose to purchase.Powershop_UK wrote:The discount level quoted can be achieved either by purchasing top up and special packs the in month or by purchasing future packs and snagging our big discount winter special pack (which we are thinking of calling Wintervention).Powershop_UK wrote:As mentioned above you don’t have to buy future packs to get the best discount, however we recommend you do as it’s a good way to budget.Powershop_UK wrote:You don’t have to purchase future packs if you don’t want to. Our goal is to make the in-month discounts, and the future packs roughly equivalent. The future packs are there for your budgeting purposes, not to lock your money away.
All the above imply (to me) that the future packs are only for "budgeting" and will have no overall impact on savings over the year. Instead, why not just wait for the monthly offers which will be sized to ensure that all customers achieve a 20%ish-over-the-year discount over the year (with the caveat that it will rely on the algorithm is predicting usage correctly).
Do you think I'm way off the mark?0 -
@mjtko You make some interesting points. I like the idea of 'bagging the bargain early' with Future Packs - especially as the £50 maximum doesn't cover my monthly spend even in the summer months. I will need to purchase Future Packs AND in-month special packs to cover/top up my monthly consumption.
When interest rates are as low as they are at the moment, I'm quite relaxed about purchasing power ahead of time to get a deal. I might worry that if I left it to in-month special packs to fund my use, there would always be a concern that insufficient special pack value would be available when required. That means I might have to use Standard Power Top Up packs at the poor value they represent.
I must admit I hadn't considered the viewpoint that Future Pack buyers are effectively subsidising customers who only purchase in-month special packs - it's a valid observation. For me it's about 'discount certainty'. Rather like electric car owners who might have range anxiety, I don't want to have 'discount power pack anxiety':)0 -
My average monthly spend over the last two years has been ~£37 (though I have been on some good fixes, and am expecting a small increase given the cost increases over the last 12 months) so I'm not in a position to go all-out on future packs.
Instead I have to consider whether I want maybe 3 or 4 for a particular month (in January/February, I usually breach £40 by a small margin). It would be an easier decision if I was breaching £50 a month each month but, in my position, if I go all out on future packs then I'm going to be due a reasonably significant refund at whatever point that might happen.
Similarly to you, I'm not worried about purchasing ahead of time, especially as I can use my 0% interest free credit card deal with no penalty, and I don't have a problem with budgeting and working out how to optimize my spending -- oddly, I quite enjoy it, as I'm sure many of us here do!
Ultimately, I'm just struggling to get a handle on how worthwhile it is to prepay, and the quotes above imply that it's probably not. I guess the only way to know is to stick at it for 12 months and wait and see, which certainly isn't my usual approach to power.0
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