New location, date tbc, accept figure now?

twiglet98 · 13 August 2017 at 11:16PM

I've worked close to home for nearly 18 years, the business is moving far enough that the journey isn't viable. I have a letter with an offer, the legal minimum. There are under 100 staff, I don't know how many are going.

The date of the move is unknown. The business will have to move in stages and my dept is likely to be the last phase. They'd like it to be this autumn but that is not certain, it could be weeks later.

I am weekly paid, 40 hour contract, low pay with regular overtime usually 42 to 50 hours a week. The letter gives a settlement figure but not the dates used to calculate a weekly average.

It states we agreed my choice was either to take this settlement on or around the date of the move, or to continue in my current role at the new place. It says I have decided to accept the 'agreed settlement figure but continue in my present position until the move, please sign and date to indicate acceptance of this change to my contract'.

Should I be signing acceptance when the date is up in the air?

I rang A C A S who were not helpful, their only advice was to ask for the date - but they don't know.

As my earnings fluctuate with overtime the 12 week average could be higher or lower if those dates were revised. Is it correct to use the 12 weeks before the letters were written, although the date of the move is unknown? It makes job-searching difficult as I don't know when I will be available to start. I'm over 60 and worried sick.

I would appreciate advice as to whether to just sign, or what I should be asking.

A separate issue is that bonuses normally paid last month have been withheld, they're not in the contract but have been paid every year, never very much (a few hundred ££s) and nothing to suggest they were performance-based. No idea if they've been withheld from everyone or only people who aren't moving. If I ask for a breakdown of the settlement figure should I expect them to have included an element of b0nus? Can I challenge it?

getmore4less · 14 August 2017 at 12:30AM

If this is supposed to be a statutory redundancy payment?
They cannot determine that now only when they put you on notice of termination.

They can do an estimate and include how it is calculated.

if you are 60 that should be based on 18*1.5 weeks

if you go over another years service the number will change(depending when your birthday is it could be 1week or 1.5weeks extra.

have they also mentioned the 12 weeks notice

Depending when they started the consultation it will be Nov maybe into Dec they will have to pay you then you still have the redundancy on top.

twiglet98 · 15 August 2017 at 12:12AM

getmore4less wrote: »

If this is supposed to be a statutory redundancy payment?
Yes it is, the statutory minimum.
They cannot determine that now only when they put you on notice of termination.
The letter is presumably not notice of termination as the date is unknown. There are rumours that they aim for November but whether that is the first or last dept to move is unknown. There isn't much time to formally give 12 weeks notice.
They can do an estimate and include how it is calculated.
The letter asks me to confirm acceptance of theredundancy offer at the 'agreed' settlement figure, which was not discussed face to face. I have not agreed this or any figure and every 12 week calculation period will have a different average as my hours vary.
if you are 60 that should be based on 18*1.5 weeks
Yes they will comply with statutory requirements
if you go over another years service the number will change(depending when your birthday is it could be 1week or 1.5weeks extra.
the anniversary of my start date passed a few weeks ago and we're sure the move will happen before next summer!
have they also mentioned the 12 weeks notice
No they haven't, it's left open-ended as building continues at the new site. My contract states my notice period is two weeks, nothing about the notice they would give me b.
Depending when they started the consultation it will be Nov maybe into Dec they will have to pay you then you still have the redundancy on top
Does calling us in individually to ask if we're going to move count as the consultation, or being handed the letter 2-3 weeks later? We've all had the talk and the letter on different days. There is no union here, no H R, just a payroll person. I don't know how many employees are going. Many of the staff are foreign workers and I wouldn't expect them to discuss it.

I'm so grateful for your thoughts. There is a real feeling of unease and that they don't know what they're doing - or they'll do what they can get away with. Under pressure to sign the letter, I want to be sure of what I should be asking them first.

getmore4less · 15 August 2017 at 6:41AM

Consultation starts the day they start it, but it also has to be meaningful. looks like with the numbers (20-99 it would be 30days)

One issue her is with these numbers they should have gone through Collective redundancies consultation process using reps, with no union this would be employee elected reps.

some information here
https://www.gov.uk/redundant-your-rights/consultation
https://www.gov.uk/staff-redundant/redundancy-consultations

there are potential issues with the process so far but in terms of consultation there seems to be plenty of time to do 30days, unless they have not informed the RPS yet.

meaningful, well I think you are beyond getting them to stay in the current building if they are already building a new place.

On that level the first meaningful discussion is will/can you move or not, other things like work from home some/all the time etc. can be looked at but often not practical.
For those that are going to move then it is the details, will there be help or temp help with increased costs, relocation etc.

For those that can't it's the package and the details.

building moves are often a nightmare, done enough in my time, as no matter how much you plan things can change.

for now I would express concerns about the schedules and the uncertainty and understand that things will get clearer as time goes on.

More important is the package.

I think I would approach this with the agree to the redundancy but the package details need working on, explain the issue of the calculation of weeks pay and how that need to be made closer to the time(you do however run the risk they stop all overtime).
Highlight they need to include the notice as you have statutory 12 weeks notice and if they run out of time to issue that notice then some/all will have to be PILON.
(could point out that some places get round this admin nightmare of timing notice and working out payments by giving everyone full PILON)

Accrued unused holiday pay up to the date of termination(if there is a PILON element try to get holiday pay for that as well).
reminding of holidays can be a bit risky if they are clueless as they can just get everyone to use them up if they had not thought of that and want to save money.

I would focus on the post redundancy as well, are you going to want to continue working immediately or take a break.
you can prepare for that by getting CV up to date and start a soft job hunt in preparation for the full on once dates are known.
Plan for a JSA claim if you have not found anything
Have a read up on counternotice a bit early for full details but can come in handy especially if you get the full 12 weeks notice and find a job

I think you are still early days and the company is as much in the dark as the employees,

twiglet98 · 16 August 2017 at 12:17AM

Thank you SO much for this, I so appreciate the time you've taken to reply.

There are some relevant points that I can't add here for fear of identification. I will pm you if I may, of course you can disregard and delete it - you have been incredibly generous with your time already.

getmore4less wrote: »

There are potential issues with the process so far but in terms of consultation there seems to be plenty of time to do 30days, unless they have not informed the RPS yet.

I'm confused between 30 days notice for this number of employees, and 12 weeks notice based on length of service?

for now I would express concerns about the schedules and the uncertainty and understand that things will get clearer as time goes on.

The rules (in the link) for collective consultation mention termination notices with the agreed leaving date, and redundancy notices. I don't understand what differentiates them. The letter I have had might be the redundancy notice - they still need to issue a termination notice, after I agree to the terms?

I think I would approach this with the agree to the redundancy but the package details need working on, explain the issue of the calculation of weeks pay and how that need to be made closer to the time (you do however run the risk they stop all overtime).

The average should be calculated on the 12 weeks immediately before the termination notice (with a leaving date) is issued?

Can they assume that by not signing and returning this letter I have implied agreement? Or that by not signing it within a certain timescale they withdraw it?
Highlight they need to include the notice as you have statutory 12 weeks notice and if they run out of time to issue that notice then some/all will have to be PILON.
(could point out that some places get round this admin nightmare of timing notice and working out payments by giving everyone full PILON)

Accrued unused holiday pay up to the date of termination (if there is a PILON element try to get holiday pay for that as well).
reminding of holidays can be a bit risky if they are clueless as they can just get everyone to use them up if they had not thought of that and want to save money.

The letter includes committing to working until the relocation takes place so I doubt PILON will be considered. Holiday obviously can't be calculated until the date is set.

Plan for a JSA claim if you have not found anything
Have a read up on counternotice a bit early for full details but can come in handy especially if you get the full 12 weeks notice and find a job

I need to find another job as soon as possible but will explore JSA as a worst case scenario, thank you. Also need to look at the pension options.

I think you are still early days and the company is as much in the dark as the employees,

Yes, I think that's the case!

New location, date tbc, accept figure now?

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