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  • FIRST POST
    • Andy6666
    • By Andy6666 16th Jul 17, 6:03 PM
    • 5Posts
    • 3Thanks
    Andy6666
    Work haven't paid me because they've not received references.
    • #1
    • 16th Jul 17, 6:03 PM
    Work haven't paid me because they've not received references. 16th Jul 17 at 6:03 PM
    Hi

    I'd like a bit of help to understand my rights. I work on a casual basis in a Leisure centre. I should have received my first payment into my bank account on Friday 14th June but it's not been paid. I let my manager know who has checked with the payroll department. Apparently they are still waiting for one of my references before they can release payment.

    This is the first I've heard that my employers were still waiting for a reference. There is no problem with my previous employer (employment finished on good terms and I had a good working relationship). All other checks complete - DBS check, reference from another former employer have been fine

    My question which I hope you guys can help with is - Are my employers allowed to withhold payment because they're waiting for a reference?

    I thought if they were waiting for a reference I'd not be allowed to work (understandably as I work with children/vulnerable adults) but withholding pay sounds odd. Also no one has informed me that the reference was outstanding. I've worked there since late May so they've had ample time to raise and problems.

    Thanks in advance for your help.


    Andy
Page 1
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 16th Jul 17, 6:17 PM
    • 1,193 Posts
    • 1,102 Thanks
    xapprenticex
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 17, 6:17 PM
    • #2
    • 16th Jul 17, 6:17 PM
    i agree its very odd, end of the day, they will have to pay you but maybe its company policy and as they INTEND in paying you, they are doing nothing illegal.

    Maybe its a good thing considering you are working with kids and they want to make sure everything is 100%.

    have you chased your referees? id do that.

    do you have to wait till next payment run or will you get paid as soon as they get the references?
    • Andy6666
    • By Andy6666 16th Jul 17, 6:36 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Andy6666
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 17, 6:36 PM
    • #3
    • 16th Jul 17, 6:36 PM
    Hi apprentice.

    I have supplied details again to my employer regarding reference and let prev employer know I need this sorting. Prev employer is rather relaxed as far as administration goes (still waiting for him to forward on previous payslips from 6 weeks ago).

    I've also provided details of another reference that can be used in case it's ongoing.

    They've said they will do a payment as soon as they receive a reference. It's just annoying that they didn't prompt me earlier that there is a problem because I'm sure it could have been sorted out.

    Cheers
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 16th Jul 17, 6:40 PM
    • 18,689 Posts
    • 18,972 Thanks
    jobbingmusician
    • #4
    • 16th Jul 17, 6:40 PM
    • #4
    • 16th Jul 17, 6:40 PM
    Have you had a contract? Have they signed it? I am no expert but I am sure they should be paying you. They can hardly argue that you haven't done the work, references or no references....
    I'm the Board Guide on the Matched Betting; Referrers and Jobseeking & Training boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

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    • Andy6666
    • By Andy6666 16th Jul 17, 6:47 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Andy6666
    • #5
    • 16th Jul 17, 6:47 PM
    • #5
    • 16th Jul 17, 6:47 PM
    Hi Jobbing Musician.

    There's not a contract detailing hours worked as I'm on a casual 'as and when' basis. I signed a generic type of contract (detailing responsibilities etc).
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 16th Jul 17, 6:51 PM
    • 1,193 Posts
    • 1,102 Thanks
    xapprenticex
    • #6
    • 16th Jul 17, 6:51 PM
    • #6
    • 16th Jul 17, 6:51 PM
    Hi apprentice.

    I have supplied details again to my employer regarding reference and let prev employer know I need this sorting. Prev employer is rather relaxed as far as administration goes (still waiting for him to forward on previous payslips from 6 weeks ago).

    I've also provided details of another reference that can be used in case it's ongoing.

    They've said they will do a payment as soon as they receive a reference. It's just annoying that they didn't prompt me earlier that there is a problem because I'm sure it could have been sorted out.

    Cheers
    Originally posted by Andy6666
    its so annoying when referees drag their feet.
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 16th Jul 17, 6:52 PM
    • 18,689 Posts
    • 18,972 Thanks
    jobbingmusician
    • #7
    • 16th Jul 17, 6:52 PM
    • #7
    • 16th Jul 17, 6:52 PM
    But surely your generic contract specifies payment and pay dates? That's the bit they are breaking, I suspect.....
    I'm the Board Guide on the Matched Betting; Referrers and Jobseeking & Training boards. I'm a volunteer to help the boards run smoothly, and I can move and merge posts there. Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    The good folk of the matched betting board are now (I hope!) supporting Macmillan, in memory of Fifigrace. Visit
    https://www.gofundme.com/running-the-leeds-10k-for-macmillan
    • Andy6666
    • By Andy6666 16th Jul 17, 6:58 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    Andy6666
    • #8
    • 16th Jul 17, 6:58 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Jul 17, 6:58 PM
    I think they're breaking the rules too. I can't see what right they have to suspend a payment because the reference is missing. It would make sense to delay your first working day until all checks are satisfied.

    Council ran Leisure trust. They're not great.
    • Geoff1963
    • By Geoff1963 16th Jul 17, 7:35 PM
    • 1,063 Posts
    • 667 Thanks
    Geoff1963
    • #9
    • 16th Jul 17, 7:35 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Jul 17, 7:35 PM
    As others have said, if the reference was so important, they shouldn't have taken N hours of your life without paying for it. What if the reference then fails, or doesn't meet some arbitrary standard ; would they never pay ? If that allows them to have N hours of your life for free, they can presumably do the same for your successor. Any fool could run a profitable business that way.
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 16th Jul 17, 7:52 PM
    • 1,193 Posts
    • 1,102 Thanks
    xapprenticex
    When we say they are breaking the rules, we also must ask WHOSE rules are they breaking? Their own?

    Different between supposedly breaking the rules and breaking the law.

    The employer may be breaking the law, but i don't think they are because they still intend in paying pending references. Obviously, kicking up a fuss will put an end to the job pretty quickly.
    • andygb
    • By andygb 16th Jul 17, 8:54 PM
    • 11,672 Posts
    • 25,097 Thanks
    andygb
    When we say they are breaking the rules, we also must ask WHOSE rules are they breaking? Their own?

    Different between supposedly breaking the rules and breaking the law.

    The employer may be breaking the law, but i don't think they are because they still intend in paying pending references. Obviously, kicking up a fuss will put an end to the job pretty quickly.
    Originally posted by xapprenticex

    We are now on 16th July and the OP has not been paid - a month past the last time they were supposed to be paid - 14th June.
    I would suggest that the employer is breaking the law.
    From your last highlighted sentance, and some of your posts on previous threads, you do not seem to be very helpful towards people who have genuine queries with unscrupulous employers.
    Perhaps you think that new employees should be treated like dirt?
    How are they supposed to survive if their employer doesn't pay them?
    • z1a
    • By z1a 16th Jul 17, 9:24 PM
    • 637 Posts
    • 490 Thanks
    z1a
    We are now on 16th July and the OP has not been paid - a month past the last time they were supposed to be paid - 14th June.
    I would suggest that the employer is breaking the law.
    From your last highlighted sentance, and some of your posts on previous threads, you do not seem to be very helpful towards people who have genuine queries with unscrupulous employers.
    Perhaps you think that new employees should be treated like dirt?
    How are they supposed to survive if their employer doesn't pay them?
    Originally posted by andygb
    14th June wasn't a Friday, 14th July was.
    • sangie595
    • By sangie595 16th Jul 17, 10:21 PM
    • 3,723 Posts
    • 6,093 Thanks
    sangie595
    Hi

    I'd like a bit of help to understand my rights. I work on a casual basis in a Leisure centre. I should have received my first payment into my bank account on Friday 14th June but it's not been paid. I let my manager know who has checked with the payroll department. Apparently they are still waiting for one of my references before they can release payment.

    This is the first I've heard that my employers were still waiting for a reference. There is no problem with my previous employer (employment finished on good terms and I had a good working relationship). All other checks complete - DBS check, reference from another former employer have been fine

    My question which I hope you guys can help with is - Are my employers allowed to withhold payment because they're waiting for a reference?

    I thought if they were waiting for a reference I'd not be allowed to work (understandably as I work with children/vulnerable adults) but withholding pay sounds odd. Also no one has informed me that the reference was outstanding. I've worked there since late May so they've had ample time to raise and problems.

    Thanks in advance for your help.


    Andy
    Originally posted by Andy6666
    This makes no sense whatsoever. Council payroll departments do not receive references, they aren't sent copies of them, and they don't care about them one iota. I am confidently certain that the payroll department said no such thing.

    I think what you will find is that your manager (or theirs, depending on where the authority lies) forgot to file the correct authorisations to have you added to the payroll - these days it is usually all computerised. The only job that payroll do is pay you - they couldn't care less whether your references have been received or not.
    • hyubh
    • By hyubh 16th Jul 17, 10:34 PM
    • 1,886 Posts
    • 1,400 Thanks
    hyubh
    Council payroll departments do not receive references.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Where did the OP specify a local authority employer?
    • xapprenticex
    • By xapprenticex 16th Jul 17, 10:36 PM
    • 1,193 Posts
    • 1,102 Thanks
    xapprenticex

    I think what you will find is that your manager (or theirs, depending on where the authority lies) forgot to file the correct authorisations to have you added to the payroll - these days it is usually all computerised. The only job that payroll do is pay you - they couldn't care less whether your references have been received or not.
    Originally posted by sangie595
    Thats a strong possibility but woudlnt they be promising to pay next pay-day rather than whenever the references arrive which could be tomorrow for all we know. Saying "Release payment" implies that everything is in order (less references).

    Of course, i can be totally wrong.

    ..Emotional drivel...
    Originally posted by andygb
    In your own words..

    ...I think you need to calm down a bit...
    Originally posted by andygb
    • amersall
    • By amersall 17th Jul 17, 7:21 AM
    • 16,674 Posts
    • 18,717 Thanks
    amersall
    Where did the OP specify a local authority employer?
    Originally posted by hyubh
    In post 8

    • andygb
    • By andygb 17th Jul 17, 7:58 AM
    • 11,672 Posts
    • 25,097 Thanks
    andygb
    14th June wasn't a Friday, 14th July was.
    Originally posted by z1a

    I think that the OP has their dates mixed up, because in the very first post, it definitely says Friday 14th June.
    • stator
    • By stator 17th Jul 17, 9:17 AM
    • 5,805 Posts
    • 3,805 Thanks
    stator
    Write a formal letter to them, proof of postage, asking them for a written explanation as to why you haven't been paid.
    Creating a written record will often make them think twice about what they are doing.
    Changing the world, one sarcastic comment at a time.
    • scd3scd4
    • By scd3scd4 17th Jul 17, 11:13 AM
    • 292 Posts
    • 260 Thanks
    scd3scd4
    I was a Union rep for a while. I can not see how they are related. If a reference was so important then they should have waited until it cleared for you to be employed. If a reference does not come through are they suggesting they keep your money?

    This sounds like there policy not law.
    • Undervalued
    • By Undervalued 17th Jul 17, 12:03 PM
    • 3,112 Posts
    • 2,838 Thanks
    Undervalued
    Write a formal letter to them, proof of postage, asking them for a written explanation as to why you haven't been paid.
    Creating a written record will often make them think twice about what they are doing.
    Originally posted by stator
    Obviously the OP has a right to be paid and, if necessary, it would be a fairly simple County Court action to enforce that.

    However, they have no security of employment so they need to think carefully how best to proceed, assuming they think the matter can be resolved and they want to continue working there.

    The is no specific right to "a written explanation as to why you haven't been paid" so there is little to be gained by demanding one.

    If the employers intentions are not good, as opposed to this being just an administrative blunder, then making demands you can't back up simply risks the employer digging their heels in for as long as possible.
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