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  • FIRST POST
    • bluenose2
    • By bluenose2 3rd Jul 17, 1:55 PM
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    bluenose2
    Flexible Working. Reduce lunch break...
    • #1
    • 3rd Jul 17, 1:55 PM
    Flexible Working. Reduce lunch break... 3rd Jul 17 at 1:55 PM
    Good Afternoon,

    I have been with my company for over 5 years now and due to my daughter starting school in September I am required to change my hours in order to support with collection.

    Ordinarily I work 9-5 with a 1 hour lunch break but I am requesting a change in hours from September to 9-4:30 with a half hour lunch break.

    I have unofficially discussed this with my HR representative and he advised that I would be able to go down to the hours requested but cannot sacrifice my lunch break as they're unpaid, I would therefore have to take a salary sacrifice of a daily half an hour.

    Now of course I would much rather take the hit on lunch break in order to preserve my salary, am I being unreasonable here? Apparently they have rejected similar claims before and therefore it's unlikely mine would be accepted.

    I have asked them to arrange a formal meeting as per process but not feeling very confident based on the "informal conversation".

    Any suggestions or advice is appreciated.
Page 3
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 4th Jul 17, 7:18 PM
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser

    Seems rather petty of them to not agree to a reduced lunch break, not something I would do but the upside is if you can stomach the loss in earnings you do have the start and end times you need.
    Originally posted by lush walrus
    How is it petty? They want people in the office from 9 until 5.

    If they let her be in the office from 9 until 4:30 with no loss of pay, everyone will want to do the same.

    They'd be stupid to agree.
    • Stylehutz
    • By Stylehutz 4th Jul 17, 9:03 PM
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    Stylehutz
    Employers need to move in the 21st century
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 4th Jul 17, 11:19 PM
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    marliepanda
    Employers need to move in the 21st century
    Originally posted by Stylehutz
    Yup offices only need to be manned til 4.30 in the 21st century, it's true!
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • Stylehutz
    • By Stylehutz 5th Jul 17, 4:45 AM
    • 251 Posts
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    Stylehutz
    Yup offices only need to be manned til 4.30 in the 21st century, it's true!
    Originally posted by marliepanda
    But they dont need all their staff from 4.30 which is obvious. Think you will Find majority of offiice type employers offer flexible working for their employees these days
    Last edited by Stylehutz; 05-07-2017 at 4:56 AM.
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 5th Jul 17, 7:24 AM
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    But they dont need all their staff from 4.30 which is obvious. Think you will Find majority of offiice type employers offer flexible working for their employees these days
    Originally posted by Stylehutz
    Nobody, literally nobody, at all, will choose to be there from 9 until 5 with an hour for lunch if there's the option of 9 until 4:30 with half an hour for lunch. Who on earth would choose that? They can't offer that option.

    There has to be some downside for doing this. Either start at 8:30, or less money. They've chosen to go with less money.
    • lush walrus
    • By lush walrus 5th Jul 17, 7:40 AM
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    lush walrus
    How is it petty? They want people in the office from 9 until 5.

    If they let her be in the office from 9 until 4:30 with no loss of pay, everyone will want to do the same.

    They'd be stupid to agree.
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    It's petty because HR have agreed to her reducing her day to finish at 4.30 but want her to take an hours lunch break. So no they do not want people in the office from 9 to 5. That is not the issue. They agree to finish at 4.30 but not to the method. 30 mins lunch break is sufficient by law, it is this persons desire for that not to be reduced.

    And no not everyone in my experience does ask for flexible hours just because someone else has. So that is not an adequate reason.
    • lush walrus
    • By lush walrus 5th Jul 17, 7:46 AM
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    lush walrus
    Nobody, literally nobody, at all, will choose to be there from 9 until 5 with an hour for lunch if there's the option of 9 until 4:30 with half an hour for lunch. Who on earth would choose that? They can't offer that option.

    There has to be some downside for doing this. Either start at 8:30, or less money. They've chosen to go with less money.
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    Lots you would be surprised. We offer our staff flexible hours, some start early some start late, some take 30 mins lunch others take an hour. There is no pattern as everyone has different wants from a day at work, not everyone is dying to reduce their day. Some of my staff like an hour so they can go out for food, meet people, relax in the sun, do chores you name it. Of our staff I would say 20 percent have opted for a reduced lunch even though it is offered.

    Same with working at home, we allow everyone the opportunity to work at home for one day a week. Most do not. Progressive offices do allow staff flexibility, if you want to retain motivated, tallented staff it's now part of the package offered.

    Not everyone is the same. I am sure if you work in a factory in the middle of no where it may be different, but then those roles are to get an order completed not to man an office.
    Last edited by lush walrus; 05-07-2017 at 7:49 AM.
    • marliepanda
    • By marliepanda 5th Jul 17, 7:54 AM
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    marliepanda
    the office does not have to agree.

    The op needs to decide what is important. Picking up her daughter or a few extra quid a week.
    Survey Earnings 2017 - £163
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 5th Jul 17, 8:19 AM
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    Lots you would be surprised. We offer our staff flexible hours, some start early some start late, some take 30 mins lunch others take an hour. There is no pattern as everyone has different wants from a day at work, not everyone is dying to reduce their day. Some of my staff like an hour so they can go out for food, meet people, relax in the sun, do chores you name it. Of our staff I would say 20 percent have opted for a reduced lunch even though it is offered.

    Same with working at home, we allow everyone the opportunity to work at home for one day a week. Most do not. Progressive offices do allow staff flexibility, if you want to retain motivated, tallented staff it's now part of the package offered.

    Not everyone is the same. I am sure if you work in a factory in the middle of no where it may be different, but then those roles are to get an order completed not to man an office.
    Originally posted by lush walrus


    Which is all very well, but this office doesn't offer flexible hours. We don't know what their reasons are. You can assume they are a bunch of incompetents destroying their own business, or you can assume they have thought about it and have good reasons. It doesn't matter. They can't make an exception for one person without !!!!ing everybody else off.
    • jobbingmusician
    • By jobbingmusician 5th Jul 17, 10:57 AM
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    jobbingmusician
    Nobody, literally nobody, at all, will choose to be there from 9 until 5 with an hour for lunch if there's the option of 9 until 4:30 with half an hour for lunch. Who on earth would choose that? They can't offer that option.

    There has to be some downside for doing this. Either start at 8:30, or less money. They've chosen to go with less money.
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    I don't think they have. Read my post #40. The OP said they had been allowed to start later. I queried this, asking if they meant 'start earlier', and the OP said 'ooops, my mistake'. I conclude from this that they have been allowed to start earlier and are now working 8.30-4.30.
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    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 5th Jul 17, 12:09 PM
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    I don't think they have. Read my post #40. The OP said they had been allowed to start later. I queried this, asking if they meant 'start earlier', and the OP said 'ooops, my mistake'. I conclude from this that they have been allowed to start earlier and are now working 8.30-4.30.
    Originally posted by jobbingmusician
    I know, I read your post, I disagree. I would imagine they meant "finish earlier", which is what they said earlier and said that they were "clarifying". Giving accurate information is not the OP's strength.

    It's immaterial anyway. Either way, they are giving something in order to get something.
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 5th Jul 17, 12:29 PM
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    Takeaway_Addict
    But they dont need all their staff from 4.30 which is obvious. Think you will Find majority of offiice type employers offer flexible working for their employees these days
    Originally posted by Stylehutz
    You do not know this as fact. And ultimately, the employer can run their business anyway they see fit as long as it remains within the legal parameters. Just because some may not agree or like it doesn't mean the employer is wrong.
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • 74jax
    • By 74jax 5th Jul 17, 1:19 PM
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    74jax
    Could the op maybe confirm -


    What were your old (original) hours, were they 9-5, with an hour lunch unpaid?


    What have they agreed? To finish earlier, start earlier or both?


    Have they agreed you can work 9-4.30 with an hour unpaid lunch, and you lose 1/2 hour pay (which would be 4.30-5 originally)?
    Forty and fabulous, well that's what my cards say....
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 5th Jul 17, 1:44 PM
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    Could the op maybe confirm -


    What were your old (original) hours, were they 9-5, with an hour lunch unpaid?


    What have they agreed? To finish earlier, start earlier or both?


    Have they agreed you can work 9-4.30 with an hour unpaid lunch, and you lose 1/2 hour pay (which would be 4.30-5 originally)?
    Originally posted by 74jax
    I can confirm most of that; there's no ambiguity in what the OP has said. The only thing in any doubt is whether they have given her the option of starting earlier as well as the option of losing half an hour's pay. That isn't really material anyway; the question is simply whether they can refuse to let her work half an hour of the lunch break and leave early, and the answer is that they can.
    • Stylehutz
    • By Stylehutz 5th Jul 17, 2:46 PM
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    Stylehutz
    So then just wonder when they recruit staff. Advert states if you arent prepared to work 9 to 5 just dont bother applying.
    • Fireflyaway
    • By Fireflyaway 5th Jul 17, 2:54 PM
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    Fireflyaway
    I asked my employer the same a few years back and they allowed me a shorter lunch in order to leave early. My pay wasn't adjusted as the hours worked were the same. I guess it depends on the job. I worked in a call centre so having me there for the busy lunchtime was actually beneficial to them. I can see why some companies would say no just because everyone would ask. I know I'd say yes if it meant keeping a good worker. I'm struggling again now trying to find a new job that still fits in with childcare. Its not easy.
    • unforeseen
    • By unforeseen 5th Jul 17, 6:05 PM
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    unforeseen
    It's really the employer's call on how they want to do things. If they insist everybody has an hours break then that is it

    I have worked for an employer where the lunch break was an hour and could not be shortened and also you had to leave the work area for that period. It was only an office area so nothing special but you had to leave for an hour.You were also allocated one of two one hour slots for your lunch
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 5th Jul 17, 6:16 PM
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    So then just wonder when they recruit staff. Advert states if you arent prepared to work 9 to 5 just dont bother applying.
    Originally posted by Stylehutz
    They state that the hours are 9 to 5, no doubt. A tremendous number of jobs do that. Why are you reacting like it's unusual?
    • ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    • By ScorpiondeRooftrouser 5th Jul 17, 6:17 PM
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    ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    I asked my employer the same a few years back and they allowed me a shorter lunch in order to leave early. My pay wasn't adjusted as the hours worked were the same. I guess it depends on the job. I worked in a call centre so having me there for the busy lunchtime was actually beneficial to them. I can see why some companies would say no just because everyone would ask. I know I'd say yes if it meant keeping a good worker. I'm struggling again now trying to find a new job that still fits in with childcare. Its not easy.
    Originally posted by Fireflyaway
    You'd say yes to keep a good worker even if you knew everybody else would then ask?
    • KiKi
    • By KiKi 5th Jul 17, 7:24 PM
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    KiKi
    How is it petty? They want people in the office from 9 until 5.
    Originally posted by ScorpiondeRooftrouser
    No, they don't. They're happy for her to leave at 1630 - they just want to pay her 30 minutes less.

    If they let her be in the office from 9 until 4:30 with no loss of pay, everyone will want to do the same.
    Doesn't matter if they do or not. They're not obliged to treat everyone the same, just consider each request given the business conditions at the time. I have people who work part time who requested it. Someone else recently asked to go part time - and I said no because I can't accommodate any more flexibility with the amount of work we have to do. Doing it for one person does not set a precedent.

    They'd be stupid to agree.
    I disagree. If I want to keep them engaged and I can accommodate it, I will.

    Sounds to me like they just don't like people taking less than an hour's lunch break - and that isn't a reason to turn down a flexible working request.
    ' <-- See that? It's called an apostrophe. It does not mean "hey, look out, here comes an S".
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